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Enviro-Mich message from "A. FRIEND" <greenscreen17@hotmail.com>

Now this is finally getting to actually be an interesting forum.  Where we 
actually discuss things from different points of view.  Who knows, we may 
actually resemble somehting similar to what is described in the enviro-mich 
mission statement. You know, the part about " Controversy and discussion are 
explicitly invited and encouraged,but extended and counterproductive "flame 
wars" should be carried out privately and not on the list as a whole."

In that spirit of balance, openess and maturity that enviro-mich is known 
for, I respond...

CORPORATE EVILS - Let's look at your list.  Eminent domain, higher taxes, 
tax abatements, corporate subsidies, billion dollar defence sales, leasing 
of government lands and mineral rights.  Hmmm... thank you for making my 
point. All of these evils are made possible only through government action.  
Guess what, I don't like the above mentioned list either.

As far as "destroying the environment and other cultures because the buying 
public wants or needs more stuff".  I am all for less stuff.   What do you 
propose - a law limiting stuff citizens of the world are allowed to have 
(and the creation of the stuff police to enforce) or (as my original post 
suggested) convincing people that they really don't want stuff and 
convincing "other cultures" they really don't want our factories and the 
"prosperity" that comes with them?  Good luck.  Actually there is a growing 
movement of folks who have voluntarily simplified their life and are doing 
fine with less stuff.  Unfortunately, this movement is currently only 2-5% 
of the U.S. population.  The rest of the world has responded by saying "it 
must be nice to live a country where you actually get to CHOOSE how much 
stuff to have".

PRIVATE PROPERTY RANTS AND RAVES - First, you can't dismiss these principals 
with (ironically)calling it simplistic drivil. It is the intellectual 
equilivant of calling me a stupid face.  Second, if we are to pretend that 
individual rights do not exist - then you can't complain about corporations 
or the government taking your health, home, money, etc.  Darn.

ANONOMOUS POSTING - All I say is "Boo Hoo". Welcome to the internet.  
Actually the use of pen names is a time honored tradition for those who 
don't want to deal with personal (or professional) attacks for having 
"original" thought.  Privacy is another one of those old fashioned freedoms 
that some of us charsih. In fact, I encourage others to subscribe to a free 
email service so that the debate here can be enlarged and enjoined.  I make 
no apologies. In fact, it makes it all the more fun knowing it bugs you.


John Smith and Sam Jones

>From: Terry Lodge <tjlodge50@yahoo.com>
>To: "A. FRIEND" <greenscreen17@hotmail.com>, Murphwild1@aol.com,  
>48MERDAV@menasha.com, Craig.Harris@ssc.msu.edu
>CC: enviro-mich@great-lakes.net, redwingnut@sprintmail.com
>Subject: Re: Re: RE: E-M:/ Deforestation, Dioxin, 
>andNoCommercialLogging!-Reply -Reply -Rep
>Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:09:16 -0400 (EDT)
>   No "amens" from me,
>   All a corporation can take away from you is your
>life, your home (eminent domain is now a form of
>corporate welfare, viz. Poletown, Toledo KeepJeep,
>Hartford Patriots), your health and your money. The
>largest businesses are indeed making your tax burden
>larger, as they receive tax abatements, exemptions,
>deductions and sundry governmental handouts, selling
>the government (you, the taxpayer) weapons and other
>stuff we can't use because they're too expensive (such
>as the $2,000,000,000 per unit Stealth bomber, far too
>expensive to lose over the Balkans, so the U.S. used
>$20,000,000 F-16s), leasing government land at
>millions below the cost of its minerals or timber,
>getting free or virtually free taxpayer-owned
>radiospectrum sites. The list is endless.
>    If you're having difficulty understanding the
>extent to which our society, our environment, and our
>so-called culture is owned by corporations, I suggest
>you take a look at Ralph Nader's recent meticulous
>presentation to Rep. Kasich's Congressional Budget
>committee at www.nader.org/releases/63099.html.
>    Please, "Friend," spare me the rant and rave about
>private property rights, the virtues of free
>enterprise and your naive acquiesence to the insane
>notion that corporations and the people who own them
>have some right to destroy the environment and other
>cultures because the buying public "wants" or "needs"
>more stuff.
>    And, oh yeah, next time have the courage to sign
>your name to your simplistic drivel.
>    Terry Lodge
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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