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Re: E-M:/ Nader Drop Out Campaign

Enviro-Mich message from "Jam Rag" <jamrag@glis.net>

Sir or madam,

Dirty tricks in politics are ALWAYS of a junior high mentality. Such things
diminish our dignity.

You're wrong about why I'm voting for Nader. It is because I believe both
Gore and Bush are headed in the wrong direction, only at different
velocities. And I won't have my vote seen as signalling a mandate for moving
in the wrong direction.

Just for the record, I have offered to have my street teams drop lit for the
Dem-backed RTF Supreme Court Justice candidates. And my street teams are
awesome! We'll get to 75,000 homes before Nov. 7. We've already moved a ton
of lit for the All Kids First anti-voucher people.

Also -- just for the record -- in the edition of my magazine (Jam Rag) which
went to press last night, we gave very strong endorsements of Bonior,
Gieleghem, Schermesser, Garza, Basham, Woodward, Bogardus, Hansen, etc., all
Dems who earned our support.

And as a matter of fact, we even heaped some substantial praise on my Dem
opponent in the 12th, Sandy Levin!

Really, after all the dirty tricks (a small faction of) Dems have heaped on
the Greens over recent weeks, I find it hard to believe that Party would
ever be so fair-minded in return. Dems don't have much to complain about
when it comes to the Ness-for-Congress committee.

We're also bringing in tons of new voters, who very well might vote for

The debate is really, really great, and where you and I DO agree is how
vital it is for everyone to really think this all the way through before
casting their vote. But personally, I may have endured more of this debate
by now than anyone else in Michigan. So allow me to bow out.

About the dirty tricks: I really respect Alex but let's face it, like most
of the rest of us he is a passionate activist and sometimes our passion
leads us to do boneheaded things. All of us. His urging people to shut down
Nader2000 computers with a flood of email is tantamount to sabotage, and
should not be respected.

His response to me? "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen."
Well, how's this for some heat: Suppose I tell the thousand people who've
joined my own campaign list to send a daily post to enviro-mich, along with
ten of their friends. With 10,000 emails coming in to everyone, I suspect
we'd chase off every single subscriber.

Don't worry, I wouldn't even CONSIDER doing such a childish and malicious
act. I'm just making a point.

(And let me be the first to point out that it is perhaps Green passion which
leads "boneheads" like me to vote for Nader!)

Also, I love this list. Again, to clarify, I did not join the Greens because
of the environment, but because of their commitment to grassroots democracy.
To the extent I might be described as an environmentalist, in all honesty my
strong inclination to reduce and reuse is more due my being cheapskate! But
I'm first and foremost interested in advancing democracy and social justice,
and that's why I joined the Greens. But when criticizing Greens like myself
for not being environmental enough, one could also criticize Democrats for
being wholly undemocratic at times!

I joined this list because I want to learn about environmental issues, and I
learn something new every day!

Really, make up your own mind, and vote however you like. I'll be glad to
continue this debate AFTER Nov. 7. Simply enough, I disagree with the

Oh yes, I also think it's much more important what people do between
elections than what they do just that one day. Right?



212 Hours Left: 10-28-00

Sue & Tom Ness
Jam Rag/Michigan Music Campaign/Green Party

Paid for by Ness For Congress/12th District

Don't Let Your Dreams Get Dusty!
No scab papers!

Subscribe general Green list: jamrag@glis.net

22757 Woodward Ste 210, Box 20076, Ferndale MI 48220
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Campaign Mgr: Lou Novak lmn@lppals.com 313-623-4709
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Iconoclast: Clark Iverson iverson_family@altavista.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Smileysmlc@aol.com>
To: <enviro-mich@great-lakes.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: E-M:/ Nader Drop Out Campaign

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Enviro-Mich message from Smileysmlc@aol.com
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> In a message dated 10/28/00, jamrag@glis.net writes:
> << You need to go back to Junior High civics class, and study a thing
> democracy. >>
> Tom,
> These issues are well beyond the Junior High mentality.  This is not about
> "democracy", but about electoral college politics.  This is not about who
> personally like or don't like, but about who's policies will best take our
> country in the direction which you feel appropriate.  This is also a
> take all" situation.
> We may agree on many of the issues, but I strongly disagree with your
> strategy.  You are NOT voting for Nader for President (since he has NO
> of being elected), you are merely voting for him on the CHANCE that the
> Party will get more money four years from now.  (How ironic is that?!)
> In order to vote for Nader (unless you and Nader truly WANT Bush to get
> elected, which is possible), you must be momentarily blinded about the
> and immediate danger which we face.  We presently have a right-wing
> Republican House, and a right-wing Republican Senate.  Couple that with a
> Republican Presidency, a Republican Administration, and lifetime
> appointments to the Supreme Court and to the other federal courts...and
> have the prescription for long-term disaster.
> Decisions made now will determine our destiny for many years to come.  The
> future of our environment will be determined NOW...as will the future of
> government.   Even if laws were eventually passed to undo years of
> influence or to protect the environment, a Bush appointed Supreme Court
> be in a position to invalidate any such laws.
> The United States government is largely based upon a system of checks and
> balances.   Yet, if the right-wing faction controls the Republican Party,
> if the Republican Party also controls ALL BRANCHES of government...then
> right-wing will run roughshod over our entire government.  They will be
> to enact all of those anti-environmental riders and other such laws which
> now subject to a Presidential veto.
> Every vote counts--especially in this election.  That is why I sincerely
> those considering whether to vote for Nader to think long and hard about
> their decision (forget about all the rhetoric and think about what your
> will really do).  I also urge independents, moderate Republicans and
> undecided Democrats to cast a vote for sensibility.  Even if moderate
> Republicans don't like some of Gore's positions, the Senate and House will
> keep him in check.  There will be no such constraint upon a Bush
> Please VOTE as if our future is at stake...because it is.  There has never
> been an election in my lifetime in which the choice for a pro-environment
> result was more clear.  Vice President Al Gore needs our support right
> The battles to be fought in four years can be fought at that time.
> Jack Smiley
> (a staunch independent, from a Republican family, who cares not for
> the Democratic Party, Republican Party, Reform Party or Green Party--
> I just want to see sensible government which will protect the
> P.S.  I wouldn't term a vote for Nader a "wasted" vote, but it will
> definitely help George Bush get elected.  If you don't realize that, at
> know that the Bush camp does, as reportedly they have sponsored some Gore
> attack ads featuring Nader.  Divide and conquer is a common strategy in
> and in politics.  We should not allow ourselves to fall victim to a
> self-inflicted strategy for defeat.
> ==============================================================
> ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan Environmental
> and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives at
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> ==============================================================

ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan Environmental
and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives at

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