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Re: E-M:/ Doves and Hunters



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Enviro-Mich message from "wmeac water2" <wmeacwater2@hotmail.com>
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: )

This is terrible of me, but I hear mourning doves are truly delectable 
eating. I don't enjoy killing things and I don't hunt, but when I read "the 
smell of the game cooking" I began to salivate. I guess I am a carniverous 
environmentalist.

I think when you kill something yourself and prepare and eat it, you 
understand spiritually exactly where that food came from. If one is going to 
be carniverous, hunting is certainly more primal, and perhaps spiritually 
more healthy than letting anonymous others raise and butcher your meat.

The part I don't like about hunting is the irresponsible hunters who poach, 
shoot within 150 feet of AND in the direction of my house, shoot at deer and 
other animals from canoes in the river (isn't that illegal?), dump poached 
deer carcasses into the local stream after they butcher it, etc. There is 
another carcass down there this week. It seems to be up to me and my 
neighbors to get these people caught, because the enforcing agencies can't 
be everywhere at once.

These same unpleasant people, if permitted to shoot at mourning doves, will 
be standing illegally in the road in front of my house shooting at the 
telephone wires at 5:30 a.m., I just know it. This is why I am against it.

(although, if Delevan is cooking....)

Patricia


>From: "Delavan Sipes" <delavan@cybersol.com>
>Reply-To: "Delavan Sipes" <delavan@cybersol.com>
>To: "Enviro-Mich" <enviro-mich@great-lakes.net>
>Subject: Re: E-M:/ Doves and Hunters
>Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:50:38 -0500
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Enviro-Mich message from "Delavan Sipes" <delavan@cybersol.com>
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>
>Memo to Richard Hitz and others of similar ilk,
>Your statements are well founded and very well said.  Thanks for stating on
>EM that, which many of us who hunt feel.  The joy is not in the kill.  In
>fact, it is rather sad to see an animal small or large, to fall because of
>my action.  And it is work to clean any of them.  The joy is in being in 
>the
>field, forest or swamp, and in the smell of the game cooking and in the
>eating.  I believe it is understandable, to those of us who feel this way,
>why the native americans gave thanks for their bounty and asked forgiveness
>for having made the kill.
>For those who choose to hide the killing by letting others do it for them,
>and then claim that hunting is "bad, bad, BAD", I can only feel sorrow,
>toward their lack of understanding.  For those who kill for the joy of
>killing, I can only feel anger toward their lack of understanding.  For
>those who kill to put free range, organically grown meat on the table,
>(while enjoying the hunt, but not the kill) I feel empathy, because they
>understand.
>Del Sipes
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Richard Hitz Consulting &Design <rehitz@umich.edu>
>To: enviro-mich <enviro-mich@great-lakes.net>
>Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 10:16 AM
>Subject: E-M:/ Doves and Hunters
>
>
> > 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Enviro-Mich message from Richard Hitz Consulting &Design
><rehitz@umich.edu>
> > 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I am a hunter. I am also an environmentalist--I cannot seperate the
> > two.  For many years I have been advocating the creation of native,
> > old growth forests on state lands and lobbying for the reduction of
> > massive clearcuts and timber harvest mandates. Yet, I am an avid
> > grouse hunter and stand at odds with the Roughed Grouse Society at
> > the NRC meetings and local compartment reviews.  It saddens me when
> > other hunters consider deer, grouse and turkey habitat management as
> > a positive, environment friendly activity. I am saddened by the NRA's
> > shrill and unyielding position on handguns and registration. I am
> > saddened by the "slob" hunters' soul-less killing.
> > As I follow the debate on dove hunting I have come to realize there
> > are also "slob" enviromentalists. People who speak with conviction
> > and venom without knowledge. Based on my own experience I would like
> > to address a few myths I've heard in this debate that are personally
> > insulting.
> >
> > 1) The passenger pigeon was as much a victim of habitat loss as
> > hunting.  As I said earlier, I advocate the return of old growth
> > hardwood forests (passenger pigeon habitat) without any hope of ever
> > seeing or shooting a passenger pigeon.  Old forests are good for all
> > of us and we have been diminsihed by their disappearance.
> >
> > 2) It is a joy to hunt and eat the flesh of an animal I have killed.
> > There is no joy in the killing.  There is sadness and remorse knowing
> > I must take a life to live.  But I have chosen to take that life and
> > would prefer to do so than hire someone to do it for me. If you eat
> > meat you are responsible for the death of every animal you
> > consume--are they raised and killed humanely and with respect? Do you
> > have any idea at all?
> >
> > 3) Yes, doves are small and there really isn't much meat on each one,
> > but how much meat do you need? Two doves will provide all the protein
> > I need for a day.  By the way, they are incredibly good much like
> > woodcock and pigeon.  If you follow the "too small" argument out a
> > few steps further you have to ask is a chicken too small? A domestic
> > duck? Should we eat only the largest animals on the planet? What is
> > the "right" size?
> >
> > 4) "Doves are our symbol of peace and are peaceful therefore it is
> > unthinkable and barbaric to eat them."  Are doves more peaceful than
> > starlings? Are they more deserving of life than any other being? Why
> > are you not ourtraged that starlings and pigeons may be shot at any
> > time of the year with no limitations? Because you don't like them?
> > They're a nuisance? You don't like their plumage, their song? Because
> > their ancestors came over on the boats like the rest of the white
> > folks? They don't fit into any of our neat native ecosystem packages?
> > Are their souls, their spirits less valuable? Is their imagination
> > less rich? Do you care?
> >
> > 5) "Hunters are irresponsibly training their children to be killers,
> > isn't their enough killing going on?" My ten year old son and his
> > friends want to kill little animals.  I did when I was a kid. My
> > father disdained hunting and would not allow guns of any sort in the
> > house, but when we got our hands on a BB gun we went after anything
> > that moved.  My son has a BB gun and a 16 gauge shotgun.  He has been
> > trained to handle each one safely, there is no mystery or glory for
> > him in handling guns. He knows it is forbidden to kill without reason
> > and resists, reluctantly, that strange, primal urge to kill.  I don't
> > know how he'll turn out but I do know that he has more respect and
> > care for life than I and my peers did at his age. The reasons people
> > kill each other has nothing to do with hunting, they happen to commit
> > homocide with similar tools.
> >
> > Finally, if you are a vegetarian I respect your right of choice to
> > take the lives of plants but not animals. Please respect mine.
> >
> > Richard Hitz
> >
> >
> > ==============================================================
> > ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan Environmental
> > and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives at
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>enviro-mich"
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>
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>ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan Environmental
>and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives at
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>Postings to:  enviro-mich@great-lakes.net      For info, send email to
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