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E-M:/ Timber tactic debate



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Enviro-Mich message from Billy Stern <billysun@chorus.net>
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>Billy,
>I've been to north Wisconsin, I'd say we both have lots of problems in our
>forests.  Lawsuits are not the only way to get things done.
>
>No I will not list the lawsuits.  I will instead focus on changing the way
>our forest are managed, as opposed to change the way you or other do their
>work on the environment, I'll leave that up to you or Murray.
>
>I just hope you are doing more than publicly criticizing other activist!
>
>Tim

Tim,

I do a hell of a lot more than "publicly criticizing other activist" 
(sic), and honestly resent that accusation.  I raised a valid 
question, in a polite, albeit poignant way.  If you took my pointing 
out numerical facts and raising a valid question as a criticism, you 
either have a very thin skin, or my points hit an exposed nerve due 
to some truth in them.

There is no denying that there have been similar issues in Wisconsin, 
but in my two years in the state, I have become involved in (among 
other issues) commenting on and preparing a response to five large 
sales in the state, and in the forest planning process.  You can 
attempt to dismiss me by somehow lumping me in with Murrey, but in 
actually, I have very little contact with him, and have worked on the 
forest issues largely with the Club here.

In your answer to Murrey, you stated, " We actually attend
>>>  meetings, write comments, appeal management actions, and go to court to
>>>  implement our strategy to recover and protect Michigan's ecological
>>>  diversity."

While I applaud the recent Aspen suit, I still hope that someone in 
the chapter would take a few minutes and answer my valid question 
about what other lawsuits the Mackinaw Chapter had pursued in the 
recent past.

Indeed, lawsuits are not the only way to get things done, but on the 
other hand they have proved extremely effective in many regions 
across the country.  When used carefully, they can even build 
coalitions and public support generally.

Unfortunately,  since I've been in the Midwest, I've found some 
people in the state extremely defensive of what I see as relatively 
ineffective tactics in protecting our National Forests.  Time and 
again, they seem to what to squash debate over additional new tactics.

I do applaud the various efforts that the Mackinaw Chapter and its 
various individuals have pursued in forest protection, but the 
question I put on the table, is, "Why has the Mackinaw Chapter used 
lawsuits so sparingly?"   I believe that that is a valid point of 
debate, and should be addressed seriously and openly, and not decided 
by just a few people in the Chapter.

Respectfully,
Billy Stern
John Muir Chapter Ex-com and Forest Committee member.



>
>>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Enviro-Mich message from Billy Stern <billysun@chorus.net>
>>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>  Hi Tim,
>>
>>  As someone relatively new to the region, I'm wondering if you (or
>>  anyone) could list the actual lawsuits that Mackinaw Chapter has been
>>  involved in that focus on USFS/NF management, for say the last 10-15
>>  years.
>>
>>  "No commercial logging" aside, Murrey is not the only person I've
>>  hear complain that the Chapters in the Great Lakes have done
>>  relatively little to slow logging on National Forest over the past 10
>>  years compared to other Chapters (and local groups) around the
>>  country.
>>
>>  The shear numbers do seem to show that the region is still a relative
>>  timber and pulp basket compared to other parts of the country where
>>  activists have taken a stronger stance.  Of course, with the relative
>>  flatness of the region and somewhat few endangered species, there may
>>  have been fewer legal handles, but most of the suits in other parts
>>  of the country are successful on NEPA  and other technical issues.
>>  Your thoughts on that are welcome.
>>
>>  Billy Stern
>>  John Muir Chapter Ex-com and Forest Committee member.
>>
>>  At 7:58 PM -0500 3/5/02, Tim wrote:
>>>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  Enviro-Mich message from Tim <timf@mac.com>
>>>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>>   Why does the Mackinaw Chapter of SC continue to advocate for 
>>>>logging in our
>>>>   national forests when the official Sierra Club policy is to END 
>>>>COMMERCIAL
>>>>   LOGGING?
>>>  Murray,
>>>
>>>  Three points:
>>>
>>>  One, the policy you refer to allows members of the Sierra Club to work
>>>  towards a bill in Congress to band commercial logging.  It doesn't force
>>>  Chapters or activists to work on that legislation.  It allows Chapters to
>>>  improve land management and stop bad practices on Federal lands as they see
>>>  fit.  In fact in the debate to pass the policy, it was sold to folks that
>>>  way.  SC policy allows Chapters to set their own priorities, within the
>>>  framework of all our policies viewed as a whole.
>>>
>>>  Two, the Mackinac Chapter works are hard as anyone to make positive
>>>  improvements in the management of our public lands.  We actually attend
>>>  meetings, write comments, appeal management actions, and go to court to
>>>  implement our strategy to recover and protect Michigan's ecological
>>>  diversity.  We do so on State and Federal public lands in Michigan.  Those
>>>  are the priorities we have selected, and they are making a difference.
>>>
>>>  Third, *no commercial logging* is not the only clear vision one can
>>>  advocate.  The SC in Michigan has followed a clear vision, and presented it
>>>  at many meetings and in comments to all Michigan's National Forest and All
>>>  State forest land.
>>>
>>>  I for one am proud of the Club's work in Michigan over the last 
>>>two decades,
>>>  beginning with our involvement in the first National Forest plans.
>>>
>>>  Our priorities may not be the same as yours, that OK with me, hopefully
>>>  we're all doing what we feel is best for the land.  I think a 
>>>diverse set of
>>>  tactics will get us to where we want to go, faster than only one tactic.
>>>
>>>  Good luck with your work, hope you'll wish me and others working with the
>>>  Mackinac Chapter the same.
>>>
>>>  Tim Flynn
>>>  Sierra Club, Mackinac chapter volunteer
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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