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RE: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it



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Enviro-Mich message from "Timothy Killeen" <timk@bikerider.com>
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One and All,

     Let's all take a deep breath. Folks we are talking politics here and there is plenty of room for the airing of views and fighting over where we disagree on candidates. People in this discussion have not decided that all candidates are equal, folks have chosen sides. It is up to each individual to promote and defend the side they have chosen. It would be a different story if all the parties who have weighed in on this discussion took the public stance that they are neutral because so many of the candidates are good. You can't pick sides and then complain that others have picked a different side.
     It was the Macomb Daily that asserted that there would be this big confrontational event at the press conference, conflict is part of the lifeblood of the media. I was one of the folks that was going to be there and I can tell you there was no idea of hijacking (can I use that word?) the event. If you are going to run for public office and be at public events then you have to expect that you will be challenged, quit crying. The attacks are occuring from all camps and folks will take offense, you tell me how else politics is going to occur. 
     One last thought, it is quite possible that the Granholm campaign did have last minute scheduling problems. If you have been around campaigns you know how fluid the daily schedule can be. Let's not let the media reports get everyone excited when there maybe a pretty simple reason why the event was cancelled (Occam's razor for all you science majors).
     Let the battle continue and the best candidate for the environment emerge.

Tim Killeen
Political Chair
Mackinac Chapter - Sierra Club
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Trigger" <GTrigger@honigman.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 19:08:45 -0500
To: <sgutt@umich.edu>, <patmec@voyager.net>
Subject: RE: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it


> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Enviro-Mich message from "Grant Trigger" <GTrigger@honigman.com>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Let me suggest another perspective
> 
> While Alex may consider me of a different view on many issues - consider what it would be like to have a 17 year old daughter who will turn 18 in October and vote for the first time in the general election (my case)  she cannot believe the negative campaigning and tactics that are so common today.  She wonders why anyone would intentionally disrupt another's press conference.
> 
> She remembers  Granholm's campaign from 2 years ago as a "high road" campaign - whether the issue is environment or taxes she is looking at the substance and turns away from the candidates with the objectionable tactics that offend the senses.  So maybe its the future voters we need to remember in these debates.
> 
> By the way Alex she might cancel out my vote since she is young enough to be genuinely liberal........
> 
> And incidently the environmental issues are important to her and her friends - so the debate must continue on the substance.
> 
>  
> 
> >>> "Patrick Diehl" <patmec@voyager.net> 08/01/02 01:27PM >>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Enviro-Mich message from "Patrick Diehl" <patmec@voyager.net>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Steve Gutterman:
> 
> With all due respect, you could not be more incorrect in your assessment
> that we need more divisive politics.  It is precisely because of the rabidly
> negative tone of politics at all levels that so many voters are apathetic
> and sit on their hands.  Read the polling data, Steve.  And when candidates
> are forced to redirect the majority of their resources toward defending
> themselves from mud-slinging by others in their own party, the opposition
> clearly benefits.  The "we need more divisiveness" approach may have worked
> for Abby Hoffman and Timothy Leary but that was almost half a century ago.
> The times, issues and electorate have changed.  And if you think the
> Democratic party doesn't articulate its positions and tries to be everything
> to everyone, I wonder what caucuses and conventions you're attending.
> 
> Re: Blanchard in 1990: I agree that he didn't run an effective campaign.
> But it was primarily because so many Democrats - in Detroit and elsewhere -
> didn't bother to head to the polls, thinking we had that one in the bag,
> that Engler was victorious.  That loss certainly was not due to ambiguous
> Democratic party messages.  You can thank your fellow Democrats for the
> "gift" of Engler.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net 
> [mailto:owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net]On Behalf Of sgutt@umich.edu 
> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:09 PM
> To: enviro-mich@great-lakes.net 
> Subject: Re: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Enviro-Mich message from sgutt@umich.edu 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I agree that we should be thankful that at least 4 of the 5 gubernatorial
> candidates promise a future administration that will be substantially more
> environmentally friendly than the Engler administration.  I disagree with
> Dave Dempsey, however, that politics should not be played divisively.  This
> is a primary, after all, and it is a process of determining the major party
> candidates.  Democrats can--and will--come together after Aug. 6 to promote
> whoever wins for November.
> 
> This is not to condone smear tactics; but a plausible case can be made that
> much of the political cynicism amongst mainstream American voters, and the
> country's shift to the right over the past two decades, are in part due to
> the fact that the Democratic Party long ago ceded the political and moral
> debate to the Republican right, and has ever since become too afraid to
> stand for any truly discernable values.
> 
> Leadership is about bringing people together, but it is also about standing
> for taking positions that people can recognize.  And that means stating
> forceful, often highly divisive, arguments.  Post-Reagan, the Democratic
> Party has bent over backwards to distance itself from its liberal past, and
> is terrified of the taint of appearing in any way as either "anti-business"
> or "pro-government," which, environmental politics is sometimes necessarily
> about.   The consensus politics of the 80s and 90s has largely been a race
> to the free-market-worshipping center-right, leaving a Democratic Party
> that is not willing to stand for much of anything that Republicans can't
> promote better.  Al Gore ran such an astoundingly timid and inoffensive
> campaign that he gave up his substantial initial lead and actually lost
> (minus a million or so votes) to Bush, leaving us where we are today.
> Twelve years ago, Blanchard hardly bothered to campaign, providing a gift
> of three Engler administrations to Michigan, and a state that is now much
> more conservative as a result.
> 
> People need leaders who will lead.  We need more divisive politics, not
> less.
> 
> Steve Gutterman
> 
> 
> 
> and it really hasn't done the Democratic Party much good done its best to
> One can harln embracing the free market
> 
> --On Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:20 PM -0400 Dave Dempsey
> <davedem@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Enviro-Mich message from "Dave Dempsey" <davedem@hotmail.com>
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > It's regrettable that several of the candidates for governor and some of
> > their supporters have chosen to attack and divide rather than simply
> > present their records and visions for renewing Michigan's leadership.
> > There's a plausible case to be made that all five of the candidates
> > running for Governor are a distinct improvement substantively over the
> > wretched anti-environmental administration that has ruled Michigan for 12
> > years.  But one defining difference might be a quality of leadership: who
> > as governor will bring together people who genuinely care about
> > protecting our state rather than continue the divisive tone of the last
> > decade?  We've got enough work to do to clean up the mess of the 1990s
> > without battling each other.
> >
> >
> > >From: "Alex J. Sagady & Associates" <ajs@sagady.com>
> > >Reply-To: "Alex J. Sagady & Associates" <ajs@sagady.com>
> > >To: enviro-mich@great-lakes.net 
> > >Subject: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it
> > >Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:06:46 -0400
> > >
> > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >Enviro-Mich message from "Alex J. Sagady & Associates" <ajs@sagady.com>
> > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Granholm cancels news conference on environment issue
> > >after Bonior supporters resolve to show up......Today's Macomb Daily...
> > >
> > >http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=4920338&BRD=988&PAG=461&dept_i 
> > d=141265&rfi=6 >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---- >Alex J. Sagady & Associates  http://my.voyager.net/~ajs/sagady.pdf >
> > >Environmental Enforcement, Technical Review, Public Policy and
> > >Communications on Air, Water and Waste/Community Environmental Protection
> > >
> > >PO Box 39,  East Lansing, MI  48826-0039
> > >(517) 332-6971; (517) 332-8987 (fax); ajs@sagady.com 
> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---- >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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