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RE: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it



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Enviro-Mich message from David Holtz <david.holtz@sierraclub.org>
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I agree with most of what Steve and Alma had to say, and disagree with
Pat that low turnout in the 1990 Blanchard campaign was because voters
took the outcome for granted.   I supervised and passed out yard signs
for the coordinated Democratic campaign that year in Flint and I can
tell you that in the African-American community voters embraced those
signs for every Democrat up and down the ticket except Blanchard.
Turnout was lower in high-Dem precincts but Blanchard failed to give
those voters a reason to turn out.  He courted the suburbs and neglected
the cities, going so far as to discourage bringing Jesse Jackson into
Flint and elsewhere for fear it would alienate suburban voters.
Blanchard gave us Engler. 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
[mailto:owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net] On Behalf Of Patrick Diehl
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:27 PM
To: sgutt@umich.edu
Cc: enviro-mich@great-lakes.net; Dave Dempsey
Subject: RE: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it

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Enviro-Mich message from "Patrick Diehl" <patmec@voyager.net>
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Steve Gutterman:

With all due respect, you could not be more incorrect in your assessment
that we need more divisive politics.  It is precisely because of the
rabidly
negative tone of politics at all levels that so many voters are
apathetic
and sit on their hands.  Read the polling data, Steve.  And when
candidates
are forced to redirect the majority of their resources toward defending
themselves from mud-slinging by others in their own party, the
opposition
clearly benefits.  The "we need more divisiveness" approach may have
worked
for Abby Hoffman and Timothy Leary but that was almost half a century
ago.
The times, issues and electorate have changed.  And if you think the
Democratic party doesn't articulate its positions and tries to be
everything
to everyone, I wonder what caucuses and conventions you're attending.

Re: Blanchard in 1990: I agree that he didn't run an effective campaign.
But it was primarily because so many Democrats - in Detroit and
elsewhere -
didn't bother to head to the polls, thinking we had that one in the bag,
that Engler was victorious.  That loss certainly was not due to
ambiguous
Democratic party messages.  You can thank your fellow Democrats for the
"gift" of Engler.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
[mailto:owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net]On Behalf Of sgutt@umich.edu
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:09 PM
To: enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
Subject: Re: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it


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Enviro-Mich message from sgutt@umich.edu
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I agree that we should be thankful that at least 4 of the 5
gubernatorial
candidates promise a future administration that will be substantially
more
environmentally friendly than the Engler administration.  I disagree
with
Dave Dempsey, however, that politics should not be played divisively.
This
is a primary, after all, and it is a process of determining the major
party
candidates.  Democrats can--and will--come together after Aug. 6 to
promote
whoever wins for November.

This is not to condone smear tactics; but a plausible case can be made
that
much of the political cynicism amongst mainstream American voters, and
the
country's shift to the right over the past two decades, are in part due
to
the fact that the Democratic Party long ago ceded the political and
moral
debate to the Republican right, and has ever since become too afraid to
stand for any truly discernable values.

Leadership is about bringing people together, but it is also about
standing
for taking positions that people can recognize.  And that means stating
forceful, often highly divisive, arguments.  Post-Reagan, the Democratic
Party has bent over backwards to distance itself from its liberal past,
and
is terrified of the taint of appearing in any way as either
"anti-business"
or "pro-government," which, environmental politics is sometimes
necessarily
about.   The consensus politics of the 80s and 90s has largely been a
race
to the free-market-worshipping center-right, leaving a Democratic Party
that is not willing to stand for much of anything that Republicans can't
promote better.  Al Gore ran such an astoundingly timid and inoffensive
campaign that he gave up his substantial initial lead and actually lost
(minus a million or so votes) to Bush, leaving us where we are today.
Twelve years ago, Blanchard hardly bothered to campaign, providing a
gift
of three Engler administrations to Michigan, and a state that is now
much
more conservative as a result.

People need leaders who will lead.  We need more divisive politics, not
less.

Steve Gutterman



and it really hasn't done the Democratic Party much good done its best
to
One can harln embracing the free market

--On Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:20 PM -0400 Dave Dempsey
<davedem@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
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> Enviro-Mich message from "Dave Dempsey" <davedem@hotmail.com>
>
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>
> It's regrettable that several of the candidates for governor and some
of
> their supporters have chosen to attack and divide rather than simply
> present their records and visions for renewing Michigan's leadership.
> There's a plausible case to be made that all five of the candidates
> running for Governor are a distinct improvement substantively over the
> wretched anti-environmental administration that has ruled Michigan for
12
> years.  But one defining difference might be a quality of leadership:
who
> as governor will bring together people who genuinely care about
> protecting our state rather than continue the divisive tone of the
last
> decade?  We've got enough work to do to clean up the mess of the 1990s
> without battling each other.
>
>
> >From: "Alex J. Sagady & Associates" <ajs@sagady.com>
> >Reply-To: "Alex J. Sagady & Associates" <ajs@sagady.com>
> >To: enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
> >Subject: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it
> >Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:06:46 -0400
> >
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> >Enviro-Mich message from "Alex J. Sagady & Associates"
<ajs@sagady.com>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> >
> >Granholm cancels news conference on environment issue
> >after Bonior supporters resolve to show up......Today's Macomb
Daily...
> >
>
>http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=4920338&BRD=988&PAG=461&dept_
i
> d=141265&rfi=6 >
> >
> >
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---- >Alex J. Sagady & Associates
http://my.voyager.net/~ajs/sagady.pdf >
> >Environmental Enforcement, Technical Review, Public Policy and
> >Communications on Air, Water and Waste/Community Environmental
Protection
> >
> >PO Box 39,  East Lansing, MI  48826-0039
> >(517) 332-6971; (517) 332-8987 (fax); ajs@sagady.com
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---- >
> >
> >
> >
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ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan Environmental
and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives at
http://www.great-lakes.net/lists/enviro-mich/

Postings to:  enviro-mich@great-lakes.net      For info, send email to
majordomo@great-lakes.net  with a one-line message body of  "info
enviro-mich"
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==============================================================
ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan Environmental
and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives at
http://www.great-lakes.net/lists/enviro-mich/

Postings to:  enviro-mich@great-lakes.net      For info, send email to
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