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RE: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it



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Enviro-Mich message from Tanya Cabala <tcabala@lakemichigan.org>
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There's nothing wrong at all with choosing a candidate and entering into a
vigorous debate on the issues.  That's an important and valuable part of our
American way of life.  But there is also much to be said for conducting
one's behavior in a responsible manner, regardless of the behavior of those
with opposing views.  In particular, language and the words we choose to use
is very important.

Something to consider -- I'm sure that I am not alone in wondering why,
after thousands of years, we still have wars, extreme divisiveness, and
incredible atrocities throughout the world.  It's not an original thought at
all, but until we can practice civility, respect, and caring with family and
friends, and at larger levels of interaction, such as in politics, we can't
expect that the huge scale of world problems will begin to be  resolved.  It
starts with each individual.  

Tanya Cabala 

     
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Killeen
To: Grant Trigger; sgutt@umich.edu; patmec@voyager.net
Cc: enviro-mich@great-lakes.net; davemec@voyager.net
Sent: 8/1/02 9:21 PM
Subject: RE: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it

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Enviro-Mich message from "Timothy Killeen" <timk@bikerider.com>
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One and All,

     Let's all take a deep breath. Folks we are talking politics here
and there is plenty of room for the airing of views and fighting over
where we disagree on candidates. People in this discussion have not
decided that all candidates are equal, folks have chosen sides. It is up
to each individual to promote and defend the side they have chosen. It
would be a different story if all the parties who have weighed in on
this discussion took the public stance that they are neutral because so
many of the candidates are good. You can't pick sides and then complain
that others have picked a different side.
     It was the Macomb Daily that asserted that there would be this big
confrontational event at the press conference, conflict is part of the
lifeblood of the media. I was one of the folks that was going to be
there and I can tell you there was no idea of hijacking (can I use that
word?) the event. If you are going to run for public office and be at
public events then you have to expect that you will be challenged, quit
crying. The attacks are occuring from all camps and folks will take
offense, you tell me how else politics is going to occur. 
     One last thought, it is quite possible that the Granholm campaign
did have last minute scheduling problems. If you have been around
campaigns you know how fluid the daily schedule can be. Let's not let
the media reports get everyone excited when there maybe a pretty simple
reason why the event was cancelled (Occam's razor for all you science
majors).
     Let the battle continue and the best candidate for the environment
emerge.

Tim Killeen
Political Chair
Mackinac Chapter - Sierra Club
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Trigger" <GTrigger@honigman.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 19:08:45 -0500
To: <sgutt@umich.edu>, <patmec@voyager.net>
Subject: RE: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it


>
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> Enviro-Mich message from "Grant Trigger" <GTrigger@honigman.com>
>
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> 
> Let me suggest another perspective
> 
> While Alex may consider me of a different view on many issues -
consider what it would be like to have a 17 year old daughter who will
turn 18 in October and vote for the first time in the general election
(my case)  she cannot believe the negative campaigning and tactics that
are so common today.  She wonders why anyone would intentionally disrupt
another's press conference.
> 
> She remembers  Granholm's campaign from 2 years ago as a "high road"
campaign - whether the issue is environment or taxes she is looking at
the substance and turns away from the candidates with the objectionable
tactics that offend the senses.  So maybe its the future voters we need
to remember in these debates.
> 
> By the way Alex she might cancel out my vote since she is young enough
to be genuinely liberal........
> 
> And incidently the environmental issues are important to her and her
friends - so the debate must continue on the substance.
> 
>  
> 
> >>> "Patrick Diehl" <patmec@voyager.net> 08/01/02 01:27PM >>>
>
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> Enviro-Mich message from "Patrick Diehl" <patmec@voyager.net>
>
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> 
> 
> Steve Gutterman:
> 
> With all due respect, you could not be more incorrect in your
assessment
> that we need more divisive politics.  It is precisely because of the
rabidly
> negative tone of politics at all levels that so many voters are
apathetic
> and sit on their hands.  Read the polling data, Steve.  And when
candidates
> are forced to redirect the majority of their resources toward
defending
> themselves from mud-slinging by others in their own party, the
opposition
> clearly benefits.  The "we need more divisiveness" approach may have
worked
> for Abby Hoffman and Timothy Leary but that was almost half a century
ago.
> The times, issues and electorate have changed.  And if you think the
> Democratic party doesn't articulate its positions and tries to be
everything
> to everyone, I wonder what caucuses and conventions you're attending.
> 
> Re: Blanchard in 1990: I agree that he didn't run an effective
campaign.
> But it was primarily because so many Democrats - in Detroit and
elsewhere -
> didn't bother to head to the polls, thinking we had that one in the
bag,
> that Engler was victorious.  That loss certainly was not due to
ambiguous
> Democratic party messages.  You can thank your fellow Democrats for
the
> "gift" of Engler.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net 
> [mailto:owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net]On Behalf Of sgutt@umich.edu

> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:09 PM
> To: enviro-mich@great-lakes.net 
> Subject: Re: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it
> 
> 
>
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> Enviro-Mich message from sgutt@umich.edu 
>
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> 
> I agree that we should be thankful that at least 4 of the 5
gubernatorial
> candidates promise a future administration that will be substantially
more
> environmentally friendly than the Engler administration.  I disagree
with
> Dave Dempsey, however, that politics should not be played divisively.
This
> is a primary, after all, and it is a process of determining the major
party
> candidates.  Democrats can--and will--come together after Aug. 6 to
promote
> whoever wins for November.
> 
> This is not to condone smear tactics; but a plausible case can be made
that
> much of the political cynicism amongst mainstream American voters, and
the
> country's shift to the right over the past two decades, are in part
due to
> the fact that the Democratic Party long ago ceded the political and
moral
> debate to the Republican right, and has ever since become too afraid
to
> stand for any truly discernable values.
> 
> Leadership is about bringing people together, but it is also about
standing
> for taking positions that people can recognize.  And that means
stating
> forceful, often highly divisive, arguments.  Post-Reagan, the
Democratic
> Party has bent over backwards to distance itself from its liberal
past, and
> is terrified of the taint of appearing in any way as either
"anti-business"
> or "pro-government," which, environmental politics is sometimes
necessarily
> about.   The consensus politics of the 80s and 90s has largely been a
race
> to the free-market-worshipping center-right, leaving a Democratic
Party
> that is not willing to stand for much of anything that Republicans
can't
> promote better.  Al Gore ran such an astoundingly timid and
inoffensive
> campaign that he gave up his substantial initial lead and actually
lost
> (minus a million or so votes) to Bush, leaving us where we are today.
> Twelve years ago, Blanchard hardly bothered to campaign, providing a
gift
> of three Engler administrations to Michigan, and a state that is now
much
> more conservative as a result.
> 
> People need leaders who will lead.  We need more divisive politics,
not
> less.
> 
> Steve Gutterman
> 
> 
> 
> and it really hasn't done the Democratic Party much good done its best
to
> One can harln embracing the free market
> 
> --On Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:20 PM -0400 Dave Dempsey
> <davedem@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
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> > Enviro-Mich message from "Dave Dempsey" <davedem@hotmail.com>
> >
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> >
> > It's regrettable that several of the candidates for governor and
some of
> > their supporters have chosen to attack and divide rather than simply
> > present their records and visions for renewing Michigan's
leadership.
> > There's a plausible case to be made that all five of the candidates
> > running for Governor are a distinct improvement substantively over
the
> > wretched anti-environmental administration that has ruled Michigan
for 12
> > years.  But one defining difference might be a quality of
leadership: who
> > as governor will bring together people who genuinely care about
> > protecting our state rather than continue the divisive tone of the
last
> > decade?  We've got enough work to do to clean up the mess of the
1990s
> > without battling each other.
> >
> >
> > >From: "Alex J. Sagady & Associates" <ajs@sagady.com>
> > >Reply-To: "Alex J. Sagady & Associates" <ajs@sagady.com>
> > >To: enviro-mich@great-lakes.net 
> > >Subject: E-M:/ Granholm Can't Take it
> > >Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:06:46 -0400
> > >
> >
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> > >Enviro-Mich message from "Alex J. Sagady & Associates"
<ajs@sagady.com>
> >
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> > >
> > >Granholm cancels news conference on environment issue
> > >after Bonior supporters resolve to show up......Today's Macomb
Daily...
> > >
> >
>http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=4920338&BRD=988&PAG=461&dept_
i 
> > d=141265&rfi=6 >
> > >
> > >
> >
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > ---- >Alex J. Sagady & Associates
http://my.voyager.net/~ajs/sagady.pdf >
> > >Environmental Enforcement, Technical Review, Public Policy and
> > >Communications on Air, Water and Waste/Community Environmental
Protection
> > >
> > >PO Box 39,  East Lansing, MI  48826-0039
> > >(517) 332-6971; (517) 332-8987 (fax); ajs@sagady.com 
> >
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > ---- >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives at
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Postings to:  enviro-mich@great-lakes.net      For info, send email to
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and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives at
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