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Re: E-M:/ Woman allegedly uses gun to halt manure spreading

Excuse me Mr. Vermeulen, but you are, to pardon the pun, full of manure. I drive a school bus through farmlands that have just been spread with manure from liquid tankers, the "old fashioned way", and I and my kids can tell you that when we pass a large (over 500) dairy farm that has just spread its load, as compared to a relatively small (100 or under) dairy, the smell is completely different. Try getting out to the country sometime and see for yourself. My kids and myself had all we could do to get all the windows up pronto after passing a large farm recently, the smell was horribly strong, with a chemical odor that was nearly overwhelming. Try riding in a crowded, hot school bus with the windows up because you can't stand to breath the air outside.
Also, I would like to challenge your concept of "old-fashioned". Old fashioned dairies didn't use the pandora's box full of antibiotics and hormones that are used now on cows, in order to push their milk production.  I can tell the difference in the smell between a farm that doesn't use these pharmeceuticals and one that does. The manure from a heavily doped up cow crowd smells completely different than an "old-fashioned", or organic farm. And having once purchased some to use on my garden I can also tell you that the drugged up manure doesn't cook down properly either.
Diana Jancek 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: E-M:/ Woman allegedly uses gun to halt manure spreading

David, my point is that in this case there is NO difference.  Even 70 cow dairies have to spread the manure, and it is the same consistency as this manure in every respect.  We are not talking about the CAFO complex, but rather the spreading of a relatively small amount of manure on one, 160 (I think) acre field.  The actions that the woman was protesting related to the very same actions that all dairy farmers engage in.

>>> "David E. Allen" <dallen@nmu.edu> 09/05/02 04:42PM >>>
Enviro-Mich message from "David E. Allen" <dallen@nmu.edu>

Grant - and others:

We have to keep in mind scale effects.  There is a difference between a
farm with 70 cows and a CAFO with 700.  It was the disingenuous lack of
attention to this detail that is driving this discussion.  I, for example,
am not anti-farming, but I am anti-CAFO.

Dave Allen

At 04:35 PM 9/5/2002, Grant Trigger wrote:
>Enviro-Mich message from "Grant Trigger" <GTrigger@honigman.com>
>This is the best summary of the issue yet - I am frustrated by the broad
>brushed attacks on farming - the way these comments get spammed and the
>"polluter" label being tagged on farmers is just not fair.
>My brother no longer keeps any cattle because of the amount of work and
>the low return - maybe the vegetarians think this tactic is a good idea
>- and those who want any farmland next to a residential home abandoned
>to other uses can cheer.
>I suggest that anyone who lives in the country should live with farm
>noise dust and odor or move to the city - the bubbling concept of
>controlling fugitive dust on farms is the next ridiculous idea - try
>wetting a field before it is worked!!?  We always tried to spread manure
>and harvest or work ground on days when the wind carried dust and odor
>away from homes - as most farmers do - but sometimes it is not
>So lets put away our weapons and focus on joint strategies WITH the
>farming community

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