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Re: E-M:/ Re: Is MSU poisoning the Facts?



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Enviro-Mich message from Lowell Prag <lprag@mail.msen.com>
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Hello Samuel,

Thank you for your response and your points are well taken, as to your
long time advocacy for the wider use of non-toxic controls through the 
use of Integrated Pest Management.

The main point that I was attempting to make, is that it would seem as the
old adage suggests, easier to catch flies with honey, rather than vinegar.

Lowell Prag

On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Praxis wrote:

> 
> 
> Dear Mr. Prang
> 
> Re: I find offensive your continued assaults on Michigan State University and
> the Michigan Department of Agriculture, not just in your last posting but
> your many previous postings.
> 
> I have no doubt that MSU and MDA appreciate you posture and that your sentiment is shared by other people, possibly many, that view this list. Often the best place to hide something is in plain view. No one would be more pleased than I if the concerns I have brought to the list were not true, but they are.  Your opinion and the personal courage you show in speaking your mind is welcome and refreshing.  I have read your posts and believe you to be well read, compassionate, and have a sincere interest in the environment based on them. These comments you have made on this post help to confirms my worst suspicions about how very dangerous the existing situation in the State of Michigan actually is. I am gravely concerned, it speaks directly to the skill and quality of the public relations departments of both institutions to sway public opinion to explain away aberrant behavior. To the astonishing propagandist skill and facade building excellence honed in a daily assault on reason when it comes to environmental risk from pesticide use and the trivialazation and discouragement of biological control. I myself find this abuse of public trust. I find this kind of self-serving institutional behavior offensive and counter productive.  What is less effective in problem solving than giving the problem to someone you trust but that want's to maintain it, while giving lip service to resolving it?
> 
> 
> Re: MSU/MSU Extension Employees often uses ambiguous authority to discourage
> and disparage safer biological control alternatives in general ('do not 
> work',
> 'untested', 'more harm to the environment than pesticide use') and the 
> ones provides
> by Praxis in particular.
> 
> How much would you like? Praxis has one and one half bankers boxes full
> of documents, about 40 pounds of information regarding this sort of behavior
> generated over the last decade.  For more information please contact Dr. George Bird MSU,
> or Dr. Chuck Cubbage a frequent contributor to this list for more information.
> 
> 
> Says Michigan State University toxicologist J.I. Goodman: "EPA has gone 
> to great lengths to present a highly conservative, worst case, 
> hypothetical risk based in large part on dubious extrapolations... and 
> exaggerated risk estimates."Given the widespread questioning of the 
> EPA's methods in instituting this ban,Congress ought to hold hearings to 
> make the agency accountable for its decision. Insect infestation carries 
> its own health hazards, and with this ruling the EPA may well be 
> needlessly exposing children -- particularly poor children -- to 
> increased risk. "
>  
> Pesticde use contributes to Asthma risk a growing problem.
> Reality is the only thing being distorted in this MSU  apologist comment.  
> What is wrong with the precautionary principle when it comes to child 
> safety?
> Facts are being distorted Lowell, but we are not the ones doing it!
> 
> 
> Re: Just how do you arrive at the conclusion that MSU and MDA are 
> actively repressing the use of Integrated Pest Management when in fact, 
> they are actively promoting its use not only on farms but also, in home 
> gardening,community and residential pest control, etc.
> 
> If this was a real effort, authentic, explain why less than 1% of pest 
> management used in Michigan is based on biocontroal?
> Trust me, when MSU, MSUE, or  MDA what to market something, they get it 
> done.  This is also known as state capitalism.
> Biological control is the very engine that drives the planet it existed 
> before MSU and MDA came into being. Thank you for pointing out the web 
> links below, none of them existed before Praxis identified that fact to 
> our public officials and MSU and MDA senior management a few years ago. 
> You should know that that listing on the MDA web page is the direct 
> result of seventy one (71) requests made by Praxis over a period of 
> eleven years, a difficcult and time consuming effort. What level of 
> interest or cooperation would you assign this?  I also believe that 
> without the dedicated effort on the part of Dr. Charles Cubbage former 
> MDA Science Advisor it would not have happened at all. However, the 
> entire time pesticide recommendations and pesticide applicator contact 
> information was readily available the entire time from both 
> organizations.  Congressman Hoekstra, State Senator Patty Birkholz, 
> State Representative Fulton Sheen, the Attorney Generals Office and the 
> Governors office are all aware of our concern and pleaded to help us 
> find a resolution.
> 
> We know Mr. Larry Swain very well, as a man, as a minister, as a leader 
> in the black community, and as a MDA employee,
> we meet when he came to us for help.  He asked us to please call Cass 
> Technical High School in Detroit.  They wanted
> to develop a pesticide free School IPM protocol like we had done in 1990 
> for the students in the Allegan School system.
> We did, Praxis did inservice training with the students bussed from 
> Detroit and extensive phone confronting as they brought our
> Academy Biotool Kit TM product on line in their school building.  The 
> techniques, materials, and methods, used at Cass Tech were our own 
> innovations, part of the consultancy and Biotool Kit product we market 
> and sold to them. When we learned Larry had been ill this summer we even 
> shipped organic food from our farm to him out of concern for his well 
> being. We also were asked to help the students at Saginaw schools and 
> our material is there now.  We did notice that School IPM information 
> about our oothecal wasp parasitiods, and nematode bait stations Praxis 
> invented are at the MSU web site but unlike when sole source chemical 
> pesticides are 'recommended' in MSU Extension bulletins by name, no 
> trade name, Praxis, or the name of the product is included from the 
> listing.  In fact, we have read articles about Cass Tech  in which 
> Praxis was not mentioned at all that seemed to imply that MSU, MDA or 
> the student themselves invented our School IPM product.  Fairness, a 
> level paling field and opportunity to be allowed to do our very best is 
> what we have asked for not acceptance, promotion.
> 
> Lowell if you are satisfied with things as they are- fine, I am not.  If 
> my postings offend you please do not read them. I have withdrawn my 
> permission for myself and my family to be harmed by this pervasive 
> omission and commission by what I personally and sincerely consider  to 
> be remarkable cowards, working against the public good and in positions 
> of trust and authority.
> 
> I think some people would like to know this information, best wishes, 
> and I will continue to read your postings.  
> 
> Praxis is a comercial enterprise and proud of it, we are also 
> environmentalists working to solve problems as a Michigan Business and 
> proud of it.  Please do not forget that MSU is also a bussiness, 
> partialy publicly funded true, but with its "Office of Intelectual 
> Property" in the bussiness of making money, by licenceing and selling 
> technology.
> 
> Samuel M. DeFazio.  616-673-2793
> 
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Enviro-Mich message from Lowell Prag <lprag@mail.msen.com>
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Note: a c.c. of this post is being sent to the following, in case they
> >wish to respond. Directions to join this forum and respond are at the end
> >of this post:
> >
> >Larry Swain
> >Pesticide and Plant Pest Management
> >Michigan Department of Agriculture
> >517-373-1087
> >swainl@state.mi.us
> >
> >Erica Jenkins
> >Pesticide Education Program
> >Michigan State University
> >517-353-4494
> >jenkinse@msue.msu.edu
> >
> >Hello Samuel,
> >
> >I find offensive your continued assaults on Michigan State University and
> >the Michigan Department of Agriculture, not just in your last posting but
> >your many previous postings.
> >
> >Your arguments are based on what you perceive to be their lack of support
> >for alternative biological controls using Integrated Pest Management (IPM)
> >which the company you represent, Praxis, promotes.
> >
> >
> >
> >I quote from your below post:
> >
> >"...
> >MSU/MSU Extension Employees often uses ambiguous authority to discourage
> >and disparage safer biological control alternatives in general ('do not
> >work', 'untested', 'more harm to the environment that pesticide use',
> >etc.) and the ones provided by Praxis in particular.
> >..."
> >
> >What evidence in this regards, can you factually present? Without such
> >evidence, I would consider such statements as bordering on libelous.
> >
> >Also, in regards to your outdated and distorted discussion of the
> >pesticide Dursban:
> >
> >"...
> >Why do publicly funded land grant universities like MSU work in a
> >dedicated fashion to keep to Quote Michigan State University Toxicologist
> >J.I. Goodman, "needlessly exposing children - particularly poor children -
> >to increased risk.".(by not using Dursban in their home and school living
> >environment)  This is precisely what is being accomplished by default when
> >MSU, MSU Extension, and Michigan Department of Agriculture do not bring
> >all pest management options to the table in a fair and unbiased fashion
> >...
> >We feel very strongly that option like biological control is a grossly
> >underutilized sustainable natural resource that is being aggressively
> >overtly and covertly repressed by the status quo in Michigan and
> >elsewhere.
> >..."
> >
> >
> >
> >I refer you to the following:
> >
> >Entomology - http://www.ent.msu.edu/
> >
> >IPM - http://www.msue.msu.edu/ipm/
> >
> >MSU IPM Pesticide Education in Communities and Schools:
> >http://www.pested.msu.edu/CommunitySchoolIpm/index.html
> >http://www.pested.msu.edu/CommunitySchoolIpm/community.htm
> >http://www.pested.msu.edu/CommunitySchoolIpm/urbanmaterials.htm
> >
> >MDA: Michigan Organic Advisory Committee
> >http://www.michigan.gov/mda/0,1607,7-125-1572_2885_15772---,00.html
> >
> >MDA: Pest Management Using Natural Enemies
> >http://www.michigan.gov/mda/0,1607,7-125-1566_2405-8862--,00.html
> >
> >This last link is especially interesting, as contrary to your claim that
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >they have ignored IPM, they actually list your Praxis company contact
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >info, along with the other Michigan IPM suppliers!
> >--------------------------------------------------
> >
> >To be consistent in your argument and given your stated opposition to the
> >MDA, should you not ask Mr. Larry Swain to remove your company from their
> >list of Michigan IPM companies?
> >
> >Lowell Prag
> >
> >On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Praxis wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Is MSU poisoning the Facts?
> >>Praxis would like to quote this pesticide apologist article (one of 
> >>hundreds) published Monday, June 19, 2000 Detroit News and offer a 
> >>rebuttal based on our long standing concerns and careful examination of 
> >>this issue. Having trusted public employees suggesting that not using a 
> >>pesticidal toxin poses significant risk is non-factual, tantamount to a 
> >>lie, and implies safer alternatives do not exist. However listed below 
> >>are the following known negative health effects to children and adults 
> >>when this EPA registered toxin when it is used in their homes, our 
> >>schools, our workplaces and on our food crops. Simultaneously it has 
> >>been our daily experience that they are working in a dedicated fashion 
> >>to repress safer, more affordable natural non-pesticide solutions.  It 
> >>has been our experience that the university and its Extension service 
> >>and MDA has used its position of public trust to misrepresent EPA 
> >>labeled pesticide products risk information.  MSU/MSU Extension 
> >>Employees often uses ambiguous authority to discourage and disparage 
> >>safer biological control alternatives in general ('do not work', 
> >>'untested', 'more harm to the environment that pesticide use', etc.) and 
> >>the ones provided by Praxis in particular.  Having a public Land Grant 
> >>University attack a federal agency for doing its job simply to expand 
> >>markets and increase shareholder profits for trans-national corporations 
> >>that manufacture chemical pesticide is unacceptable.
> >>
> >>Is this pesticide apologist behavior university policy?
> >>This apologist behavior regarding pesticide risk appears, based on our 
> >>own experience, to be standard university policy and bears careful 
> >>examination by every member of  society, parents and our elected 
> >>officials in particular. To Quote the National Research Council of the 
> >>National Academy of Sciences, "children and women are more sensitive to 
> >>pesticide exposure then men". In the standard reference book "Basic 
> >>Guide to Pesticides, Their Characteristics and Hazards" by Shirley A. 
> >>Briggs ISBN 1-56032-253-5 on page 213 the know risks of the Chlorpyrifos 
> >>are described as follows-Class of Pesticide: Organophosphate specific 
> >>compound: Chlorpyrifos trade name Dursban.
> >>Mode of Action: Acetocholinesterase inhibitor, damaging nerve function. 
> >>Immediate effects: Behavioral disturbances, un-coordination, muscle 
> >>twitching, headaches, nausea, dizziness, anxiety, irritability, loss of 
> >>memory, sleep pattern change, restlessness, weakness, tremor, abdominal 
> >>cramps, diarrhea, sweating, salivation, tearing, excessive nasal 
> >>discharge, blurred vision, constriction of the pupil, slowed heartbeat, 
> >>confusion, incontinence, and hypertension.
> >>Long term effects: Delayed neurotoxicity, recovery is rarely complete in 
> >>adults; with the passage of time the clinical picture changes from 
> >>flaccid to epastic type paralysis, some (effects) are cumulative, 
> >>persistent anorexia, weakness, malaise, nerve damage via the destruction 
> >>of the myelin sheath, around nerve fibers, carcinogens, sterility and 
> >>impotence, mutagens, fetotoxin , hormonal inhibition, eye damage, 
> >>suspect mutagen, suspect carcinogen, embryotoxins, suspect teratogens, 
> >>immunotoxins, indication of bone marrow damage and aplastic anemia, 
> >>kills white blood cells, sperm and other reproductive abnormalities, 
> >>suspect viral enhancers, ulcers, abnormal brain waves, reduced protein 
> >>synthesis in fetus, liver damage, kidney damage, suppressed antibody 
> >>reproduction, decrease auditory attention, visual memory, problem 
> >>solving balance and dexterity.
> >>Environmental effects: Responsible for the deaths of large numbers of 
> >>birds on turf and in agriculture, affects breeding success in birds, 
> >>embryotoxin in birds, can change feeding habits in birds.
> >>
> >>Testing of pesticides on human subjects is unacceptable, immoral and 
> >>violates international treaties on human experimentation, it is deeply 
> >>disturbing that this topic has been broached by any US scientist.
> >>Why is it even being brought up in this apologist article in defense of 
> >>this pesticide that was often recommended for use in Michigan's homes 
> >>and schools for decades before it was banned.  Regarding the disturbing 
> >>comment in the article : "Meanwhile, the EPA disregarded human studies 
> >>proving Dursban's safety".  The so called "studies" merle identify that 
> >>some unfortunate human subjects survived exposure, this did not proved 
> >>the subject was not harmed at levels that were less than lethal and this 
> >>certainly would not allow any reasonable person to make safety claims.  
> >>Praxis would like to point out that the EPA prohibits "human studies" 
> >>that use experimental models where human subjects, usually colleges 
> >>students and the poor are paid to consume, inhale, or be injected with 
> >>doses of to EPA registered pesticides.  This is not legal and would 
> >>violate international treaties on human experimentation. This vile, 
> >>repugnant, proposal violates the fundamental core concepts of a civil 
> >>society, the United States is a signatory of the international agreement 
> >>regarding human experimentation developed after the trails at 
> >>Nuremberg.  Nazi scientist that conducted human experimentation were 
> >>considered war criminals and imprisoned or hung for doing precisely what 
> >>has been proposed in this article- test human beings with a substance 
> >>that is a biocide and has no reasonable expectation of benefit simply to 
> >>get around laws designed to protect the public expressly to increase 
> >>corporate profits.  Ironically a pesticide, Zyclon B, made by the IG 
> >>Farben company now operating as AG Bayer was the product used to kill 
> >>millions of jews, gypsies and others in the Nazi death camps of World 
> >>War II.
> >>
> >>Using any substance that has so many known risks even in very small 
> >>doses and other largely unknown levels of risk when synergism between 
> >>this substance and all the other minute traces we exposed to in our food 
> >>and living environment take place everyday. On a cellular level this 
> >>daily exposure usually takes place without our awareness and definitely 
> >>without our permission. This makes us question the role of land grant 
> >>universities acting as apologists, promoters and sales representatives 
> >>for the pesticide industry in its extension bulletins and when the 
> >>public contacts extension agents for advice.  Why do publicly funded 
> >>land grant universities like MSU work in a dedicated fashion to keep to 
> >>Quote Michigan State University Toxicologist J.I. Goodman, "needlessly 
> >>exposing children - particularly poor children - to increased risk.".(by 
> >>not using Dursban in their home and school living environment)  This is 
> >>precisely what is being accomplished by default when MSU, MSU Extension, 
> >>and Michigan Department of Agriculture do not bring all pest management 
> >>options to the table in a fair and unbiased fashion.  They end up 
> >>promoting endorsing and acting like sales and marketing agents for 
> >>pesticides and genetically engineered food.  This is not in the best 
> >>interest of the common good. It also flies in the face of the publics 
> >>clearly enunciated interest in pesticide use reduction, indoor air 
> >>quality, non-point pollution and the federally mandated FQPA.  We feel 
> >>very strongly that option like biological control is a grossly 
> >>underutilized sustainable natural resource that is being aggressively 
> >>overtly and covertly repressed by the status quo in Michigan and 
> >>elsewhere.  Michigan residents need to be able to chose from a broad 
> >>pallet of all available options.  We sincerely believe if people are 
> >>allowed to vote with their pocketbook, without having their information 
> >>filtered by a 'scientific and technological elite that they will make 
> >>decisions that pose less risk to themselves and collateral damage to the 
> >>environment.
> >>
> >>It is interesting to note the company that makes Dursban was forced to 
> >>pay the largest civil penalty ever given a US company till that time, to 
> >>the US EPA for failing to report known cases of human injury linked to 
> >>the use of this product for hiding this information from regulators for 
> >>more than a decade while it continued to market it here in the State of 
> >>Michigan.  It has now been banned for most uses but existing stocks on 
> >>hand, (there were deep, deep, discount sales just before this product 
> >>was withdrawn) so pesticide applicators may continue to use this product 
> >>in Michigan for many years to come.  I for one am not comforted by this 
> >>fact.
> >>
> >>Sincerely,
> >>
> >>Samuel M. DeFazio
> >>Praxis
> >>2723 116th Ave
> >>Allegan, MI  49010      616-673-2793
> >> 
> >>
> >>Published Monday, June 19, 2000 Detroit News
> >>
> >>"EPA: Poisoning the Truth?
> >>The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has banned the most popular 
> >>household
> >>pesticide and curtailed its agricultural use . But the agency grossly 
> >>misconstrued
> >>scientific data to justify its action, and this regulatory abuse 
> >>warrants a congressional
> >>inquiry.
> >>The pesticide, chlorpyrifos, has been on the market some 30 years as an 
> >>active
> >>ingredient in more than 800 products approved in 88 countries. Retailers 
> >>will be allowed
> >>to sell shelf stock through 2001, but production for household 
> >>applications in the United
> >>States will be halted by year's end.
> >>EPA Administrator Carol Browner claims that hundreds of children have been
> >>poisoned by chlorpyrifos, which also is known by its trade name Dursban. 
> >>And the agency
> >>only acted, she insists, after "the most extensive scientific review of 
> >>the potential hazards
> >>from a pesticide ever conducted."
> >>But Dr. Alan Hoberman, the principal researcher whose data Ms. Browner 
> >>cites, told
> >>us he disputes the agency's interpretation of his findings. Meanwhile, 
> >>the EPA disregarded
> >>human studies proving Dursban's safety in favor of more dubious animal 
> >>testing. And
> >>poison-control authorities are simply baffled by Ms. Browner's assertion 
> >>that pesticide
> >>poisoning is widespread.
> >>Dr. William Robertson, who has headed the Washington Poison Center for 
> >>30 years,
> >>says the EPA's action will actually expose children to greater health 
> >>hazards. Insect-bite
> >>allergies as well as asthma induced by cockroach allergens outnumber 
> >>pesticide poisonings
> >>by 100-1.
> >>Hardest hit will be lower-income families in cities like Detroit, who 
> >>can ill afford a
> >>weekly house call from the Orkin man. Yet that is precisely what the EPA is
> >>recommending as a substitute for a couple squirts from a can of bug spray.
> >>Dursban was reassessed by the EPA under the 1996 Food Quality Protection 
> >>Act,
> >>which requires the agency to evaluate the effects of pesticides on 
> >>children specifically.
> >>Based on a study of rats fed doses of Dursban 500 times greater than a 
> >>typical human
> >>exposure (the equivalent of spraying every three minutes 'round the 
> >>clock indefinitely), the
> >>agency concluded that the application currently allowed does not provide 
> >>an adequate
> >>margin of safety for children. But the dose the agency deemed safe -- 
> >>1,000 times less
> >>than the level where no health effect is observed -- renders Dursban 
> >>ineffective, thereby
> >>constituting a ban.
> >>Extrapolating from animal testing always is suspect. But in this case, 
> >>many experts say
> >>the agency has blatantly misinterpreted the data. A myriad of factors 
> >>could be responsible
> >>for the single change observed in the rats' brain tissue, and many 
> >>researchers are
> >>convinced that Dursban was not the culprit. Indeed, the 5-percent 
> >>thinning of cortex tissue
> >>easily falls within the margin of measurement error. And despite the 
> >>thinner tissue, the
> >>affected rats displayed no functional disability.
> >>Researchers by the dozens are thus deeply troubled. Says Michigan State 
> >>University
> >>toxicologist J.I. Goodman: "EPA has gone to great lengths to present a 
> >>highly
> >>conservative, worst case, hypothetical risk based in large part on 
> >>dubious extrapolations
> >>... and exaggerated risk estimates."
> >>Given the widespread questioning of the EPA's methods in instituting 
> >>this ban,
> >>Congress ought to hold hearings to make the agency accountable for its 
> >>decision. Insect
> >>infestation carries its own health hazards, and with this ruling the EPA 
> >>may well be
> >>needlessly exposing children -- particularly poor children -- to 
> >>increased risk. "
> >>The Issue
> >>Should the EPA ban a popular insecticide on the basis of questionable 
> >>scientific evidence?
> >>Copyright 2000, The Detroit News
> >>We welcome your comments. E-mail us at letters@detnews.com 
> >><mailto:letters@detnews.com> "
> >>
> >>Perhaps Congress should hold hearings to have MSU/MSUE and all other 
> >>publicly funded institutions and agencies accountable for these 
> >>pesticide industry apologist efforts and get an explanation for all the 
> >>time and money that goes into the service of its corporate clients.  
> >>This is especially true where a clear conflicts of interest exists with 
> >>the interests of the public in regards to pesticide use reduction.  




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