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Re: E-M:/ Stupidity: Re: Get ready for coal-fired ethanol plants



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Enviro-Mich message from Roger Kuhlman <rokuhlman@yahoo.com>
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I really don't know why we are talking about new
sources of energy. We already have plenty of energy
supplies. The real problem we should be persistently
addressing is reducing energy demand. The focus here
should be on energy efficiency, energy conservation,
and reduction of energy use. America has less than 5%
of the World's population but uses about 25% of the
World's energy. That pattern is not ecologically
sustainable in the long term nor is it fair to the
rest of the World's population. Also this fact is a
potent argument why the United States needs to
stabilize its population now. The only way the
American population can do be brought under control is
by restricting legal immigration to pre-1965 levels
and stopping illegal immigration completely.

Roger Kuhlman
Ann Arbor, Michigan

--- Lowell Prag <lprag@mail.msen.com> wrote:

>
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> Enviro-Mich message from "Lowell Prag"
> <lprag@mail.msen.com>
>
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> 
> Mark Richardson said:
> 
> ... see below ...
> 
> Hello Mark,
> 
> The issue on whether or not there is a net energy
> savings in using corn to
> produce ethanol for fuel, has been debated for many
> years and there is
> much data available. The answer is yes and no,
> depending upon which study
> you read.
> 
> To me, the whole issue is stupid.
> 
> There is enough fuel contained in all of our waste
> organic bio-mass in
> this country which can be extracted as methane (it's
> natural gas: the same
> as you use in a stove) and it can easily be used to
> power both cars and
> trucks without resorting to using our farm lands to
> produce fuel.
> 
> In Europe, anaerobic digesters to produce methane
> from waste organic
> bio-mass, are widely used.
> 
> The issue in the USA, is why we have not widely
> employed this proven
> technology which could while producing fuel, rid us
> of most of our land
> fills and incinerators, resolve the manure problems
> with cafos, etc., and
> solve all of the other problems created by our
> present methods of dealing
> with our other organic wastes.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Lowell Prag
> 
> 
> Mark Richardson said:
> 
> >
>
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> > Enviro-Mich message from "Mark Richardson"
> > <Mark.Richardson@macombcountymi.gov>
> >
>
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> >
> > I'm asking myself these questions:
> >
> > 1) Is there likely to be any net energy savings
> from using ethanol for a
> > percentage of transportation fuel, given the
> energy expended in mining and
> > transporting coal, and growing and transporting
> corn and other feedstocks?
> >
> > 2) Is there likely to be any net environmental
> improvement from using
> > ethanol, given the tradeoffs between reductions in
> pollution from vehicles
> > and increased pollution from ethanol plants and
> further up the fuel
> > manufacturing chain?
> >
> > 3)  Is there likely to be any net economic benefit
> from using ethanol,
> > given the cost of manufacturing ethanol and the
> increase in cost of coal
> > resulting from increased demand due to a host of
> factors?
> >
> > I'm suspecting the only real benefit of using
> ethanol is decreasing our
> > dependance on foreign oil, but maybe even that is
> open to question.
> >
> >>>> "Alex J. Sagady & Associates" <ajs@sagady.com>
> 03/01/06 6:02 PM >>>
> >
>
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> > Enviro-Mich message from "Alex J. Sagady &
> Associates" <ajs@sagady.com>
> >
>
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> >
> > OK Michigan....courtesy of the BUSH EPA....get
> ready for
> > a spate of coal-fired ethanol plants.  EPA is
> proposing to
> > relax Clean Air Act new source review rules for
> fuel-ethanol
> > plants by declaring the major stationary source
> level for
> > such plants to be 250 tons per year rather than
> the current
> > 100 tons per year.
> >
> > This will encourage large, but poorly controlled
> coal-fired ethanol plants
> > in the midwest, including Michigan.   Under the
> proposed EPA
> > rules, ethanol plants emitting less than 250 tons
> of any criteria
> > pollutant will no longer have to ensure that
> facilities are controlled
> > with best available control technology and to
> evaluate air quality
> > impacts around the plants.
> >
> > This is another example of big time agriculture
> trying to extend influence
> > to allow high impact facilities that are also
> subsidized with taxpayer
> > dollars.
> 
> 
>
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