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Re: E-M:/ Re: the bogus "May 25 Black Day for the Environment"



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Enviro-Mich message from Roger Kuhlman <rokuhlman@yahoo.com>
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I take offense at your implying that my arguments are
racist. You must have pretty threadbare arguments for
open borders and high population growth in America to
resort to the racism card. 

It is not racist to be concerned that America is
growing quickly to a population of 500 million people
in 2050. It is not racist to be worried about the
environmental impact of adding 200 million people to
our country. It is not racist to say population growth
and environmental degradation are interconnected. It
is not racist to point out that the overwhelming
source of population growth in America is due to
immigration. It is not racist to point out that over
100 million foreign immigrants will consume far far
more resources in America than in their home
countries.

When does America's population become too big? Is 400
million people too many? Is 500 million people too
many? I recently heard a Detroit priest say we should
be welcoming anybody who wants to come to our country
because America has room for 1 billion people. Is a
country with 1 billion people fine with you? How would
such a place work environmentally with current
American lifestyles?

Roger Kuhlman
Ann Arbor, Michigan

What does the importation of millions of foreign
citizens do to the living standards of poor and
working class American citizens. Huge increases in the
supply of labor means wages and benefits are falling
and will continue to fall for these people. Big
corporations like Wal-Mart, Microsoft, Centex Homes
just love cheap labor. Why are many liberals and high
immigration advocates in bed with corporate interests
who want cheap labor?

--- Reg Gilbert <reg@glu.org> wrote:

>
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> Enviro-Mich message from Reg Gilbert <reg@glu.org>
>
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> 
> Dear list,
> 
> This message from Mr. Kuhlman is an outrage.
> 
> In the first and most important sense, this message
> dresses an old 
> American fear of multiplying non-white people in
> environmental 
> clothes. The tone of the message makes this clear. I
> hope others on 
> this list will denounce this sentiment for the
> xenophobia that it 
> almost certainly is, but in any case certainly
> feeds.
> 
> Secondly, Mr. Kuhlman's environmental logic is
> fallacious. Any 
> increase in population growth in the United States
> caused by 
> immigration from Mexico and Central America will be
> much more than 
> offset by reduced population growth in the source
> countries. It is 
> demographically axiomatic that increased living
> standards reduce 
> birth rates. Perhaps Mr. Kuhlman does not consider
> population growth 
> south of the border as problematic as population
> growth in the United 
> States. In fact, it is more significant in its
> contribution to total 
> human misery and long-term potential for
> international destabilization and war.
> 
> Mr. Kuhlman's concern for immigration contributing
> to "extravagant 
> levels of consumption" is of course generically
> valid, but I say 
> terribly inappropriate in this context -- should
> environmentalists 
> really argue that low-income nations and the people
> in them should 
> not aspire to improving their standards of living?
> Substantial 
> portions of immigrant earnings go back to home
> countries to support 
> the most basic family needs. Mexicans and El
> Salvadorans do not come 
> to the United States to indulge in extravagant
> living.
> 
> This message is not intended to support the Senate
> bill per se, 
> though I would be surprised if anybody on this list,
> perhaps with the 
> exception of Mr. Kuhlman, thought it was morally
> acceptable to have a 
> permanent system in which more than ten million
> people needed for 
> jobs in United States, whether illegal immigrant or
> legal "guest 
> worker," have no path to citizenship or the vote.
> The immigrant 
> debate is at least in part a civil rights debate.
> 
> But whatever one's position in the immigration
> debate, I say it would 
> be politically and morally wise to keep the
> environment out of it.
> 
> Reg
> 
> 
> At 11:57 AM 5/26/2006, Roger Kuhlman wrote:
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Enviro-Mich message from Roger Kuhlman
> <rokuhlman@yahoo.com>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >On May 25, the US Senate blithely voted 62 to 36 to
> >add upwards of 100 million foreign immigrants to
> the
> >American population over the next 20 years in a
> >so-called immigration reform bill. Just like 1986,
> >this bill grants amnesty to illegal immigrants but
> >instead of three million illegal aliens getting
> >amnesty as in 1986, the number today could go as
> high
> >as 20 million. Whatever the actual number turns out
> to
> >be, amnesty for today's illegal aliens will be a
> huge
> >inducement for future illegal immigration. There
> will
> >be no surprise in 10 years when our country has
> >another new 20 or 30 million illegal immigrants
> >clamoring for amnesty again.
> >
> >The environment and American Environmentalism has
> >suffered a major defeat in this Senate action. If
> you
> >have high economic growth, extravagant levels of
> >consumption, and a rapidly growing population as we
> >have in America today, what chance do you have
> >stopping or even slowing major environmental
> >degradation in both America proper and the world as
> a
> >whole? Looking at matters realistically and using
> >commonsense suggests not much.
> >
> >Roger Kuhlman
> >Ann Arbor, Michigan
> >
> >Ps. Senate Democrats including Carl Levin nearly
> >unanimously (4 exceptions including Debbie
> Stabenow)
> >voted to stand shoulder to shoulder with President
> >George Bush and corporate interests in demanding
> high
> >immigration and cheap labor. Wal-Mart, Microsoft,
> >McDonald's, Developers and the Construction
> Industry
> >will be very well pleased with this outcome since
> >their labor costs will continue to decline. Ah
> >progress. Maybe the auto industry can get into this
> >'good' thing of importing cheap foreign labor. A
> >solution for the troubles of GM and Ford?
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
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> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>==============================================================
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>==============================================================
> 
> 
> Reg Gilbert
> Senior Coordinator
> Great Lakes United
> 
> (716) 362-3152
> 
> or, if that results in voice mail
> and response is needed quickly:
> 
> (716) 200-1062
> 
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> 
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> 
> www.glu.org
> 
> An international coalition promoting and
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> and restore the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence
> River ecosystem
> 
> Great Lakes United staff are represented by
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> ____________________________________
> 
> 
> 
>
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> ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan
> Environmental
> and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen
> Action.   Archives at
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> 
> Postings to:  enviro-mich@great-lakes.net      For
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and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives at
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