Re: [o2michigan] Re: E-M:/ Hydrogen is the future ...

[Rane Curl <ranecurl@engin.umich.edu>]

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Enviro-Mich message from Rane Curl <ranecurl@engin.umich.edu>
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On Fri, 30 Jun 2006, Wayneapple@aol.com wrote:

> I continue to be amazed at how a small number of short-sighted, often 
> interest-funded individuals such as Mr. Hayden and David Pimentel (of 
> the ethanol is a net energy loss fame) continue to get so much following 
> and air play.

A more recent analysis of the net energy for ethanol production finds a 
small net gain - but so small that it would be uneconomic and useless if 
the process were to be run without fossil fuel input. There are enough of 
these analyses now to have confidence in the result (given the 
assumptions). I see nothing "short sighted" or "interest-funded" about 
these engineering studies. If anyone does, they should produce their own 
study showing what might be errors in the previous studies. Baseless 
criticism does nothing to advance a solution to the problems.

> Solar energy has always been our primary energy source. All we are trying to
> do now is get smart enough  to not have to wait a couple of million years to
> harness it(ie use of fossil fuels).

The way to use solar energy is via liquid fuels from cellulose (not 
necessarily ethanol - ethanol get all the attention because there exists 
an ethanol industry that arose to produce beverages - that does not mean 
that it is necessarily the best process for producing liquid fuels). The 
reason why this is better than photovoltaics is that it does not require 
an investment in photovoltaic equipment, which is quite expensive (and 
requires a lot of energy), and does not produce hydrogen, which is more 
expensive to produce and handle, as well as more dangerous, than liquid 
fuels.

...snip...
> The consensus of scientists is that we can no longer afford to burn fossil
> fuels(everyone should see " An Inconvenient Truth"). If we can't do it with
> renewables, I don't think that we, as a species, will make it.

It may, in fact, be the case that we will not make it unless we reduce 
population and adopt a much less energy intensive lifestyle, in addition 
to developing efficient and economic alternatives to fossil fuels. I fear 
that what many are thinking of in terms of renewable energy sources is 
based on an assumption we can maintain our rates of population growth and 
economic expansion. Some think we have already gone beyond the carrying 
capacity of the earth.

--Rane L Curl


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