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Re: E-M:/ Live fire training comments period extended

Enviro-Mich message from "Alexander J. Sagady" <ajs@sagady.com>

Firearms use does release fine lead particles...


Poorly controlled lead emissions from police and private 
firearms shooting ranges in populated areas will be far 
more of a hazard to public health and environment than 
what is being proposed by the Coast Guard (when considered
from the standpoint of assessment of lead exposure hazards).

As to the Coast Guard training, the primary hazard will most likely be to the persons
using the firearms.   There will be a vanishingly small amount of 
airborne deposition.   I've not done the research but I'd expect
that the airborne deposition of particles from the limited training
would be far, far, far, far, far less than ongoing ambient lead particle deposition 
from general lead contamination in the atmosphere on a gram per square 
meter basis.

The elemental lead waste from bullets entering waters of the 
Great Lakes will not likely be a problem as ambient pH of 
Great Lakes waters will not cause appreciable leaching of 
lead.   Lead metal, such as that present in electronic circuit 
boards, is an environmental hazard in landfills which have
poor control of leachate pH, as I've heard of recent 
Toxic Concentration Leaching Procedure tests that show
the hazardous properties of lead in electronic circuit boards
that would suggest landfill disposal would result in lead release.

If you want to worry about toxics entering the Great Lakes, 
go support the protest against the Granholm Administration's
failure to enforce MEPA and air permitting violations against
Lafarge Corporation's release of 500+ pounds of mercury every 
year up in Alpena.....and oppose the idea that mercury controlled
by emission controls from power plants in Canada that concentrate
such mercury in fly ash should be brought to Michigan for 
airborne release in a cement plant in Alpena.   

If you want to worry about lead contamination, the Coast Guard and the 
Great Lakes, worry about this:


.....and past, massive violations of the Resource Conservation and
Recovery Act by the Coast Guard in the disposal of buoy/navigational 
aid batteries by dumping at the location of battery replacement in 
watercourses.   Those batteries were full of lead sulfate in solution form 
which is/was immediately biologically available as a toxicant.

The practice/training firing by the Coast Guard, in my view, is
an environmental/resource issue for Great Lakes recreation, 
potentially for wildlife management
and for safety.   I view it also as a political issue as it reflects a 
militarization of the US Canada border waters that is taking 
place because the president of the US and the prime minister in 
Canada have agreed to trash a longstanding international treaty 
by so-called "reinterpretation"...all of this completely unnecessary.     I also object to such 
militarization for the same reason as many find the militarization of 
local police departments and any use of the military for 
domestic law enforcement objectionable.

HAMILTREEF says they should go and shoot some excess cormorrants, but
I like my idea of shooting asian carp on the Illinois River better.

Regards,  Alex Sagady

At 04:57 PM 09/02/2006, Robert Isaac wrote:
>Enviro-Mich message from "Robert Isaac" <rjisaac@gmail.com>
>On 9/2/06, Gary Stock <gstock@net-link.net> wrote:
>>Enviro-Mich message from Gary Stock <gstock@net-link.net>
>>Robert Isaac wrote:
>>> If they are using the copper-jacketed lead bullets then they are
>>> contaminating the lakes with lead.
>>That seems true to a meaningful extent.  Let's all be cautious about how
>>it's explained -- because any misleading data will undermine many strong
>>arguments against this practice.
>>An excellent example of misleading:
>>> One bullet weighing 2.6 grams fully dissolved in 51,000 gallons
>>> of water results in a lead concentration of 15 parts per billion, the
>>> legal limit for drinking water."
>>> http://www.ewg.org/reports/poisonouspastime/leadpoll.pdf
>>Presume they're copper jacketed -- or not.  Presume generously that five
>>percent of rounds strike a solid object (shoreline or flotsam), and very
>>generously that ten percent break up on impact with the surface of the
>>What portion of the ammo will be "fully dissolved" on impact?  Perhaps
>>one percent of one percent?  one percent of that?  one percent of that?
>>Otherwise, "fully dissolving" 2.6 grams of lead in 51,000 gallons of
>>water by natural causes -- such as wildlife ingestion, wave action or
>>other forms of physical abrasion, and leaching or other forms of
>>chemical dissolution -- would take... fifty thousand years?  nine
>>million?  two billion?
>And how many fish are going to see these shiny things drifting down
>and eat them instinctively, entering the food chain in that manner?
>The argument presented above is not as misleading as you would have us
>believe because the copper-jacket does not remain intact upon striking
>anything, anyone that has ever fired a gun knows this.  Anyone that
>has fired a gun also knows that bullets can and do fragment on impact,
>2.6 grams of lead particles could easily come from one gun during one
>firing session.  So what is misleading about it?  Please explain.
>>That, in turn, will be pushed back against the environmental community,
>>to suggest that only liars, nutcases, and freedom-haters want to stop
>>lead discharge.
>You left out al Qaeda supporters, this is "homeland security" afterall. ;-)
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