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RE: E-M:/ RE: / Out of state trash/Granholm/waste incineration



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Enviro-Mich message from "Julie Metty Bennett" <jmetty@pscinc.com>
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They don't say anything about incineration either! Not sure what point
you are driving at. The articles indicate that she is looking at ways
convert landfill waste to heat and fuel. You thought she may be talking
incineration, I offered a different perspective that she may be talking
landfill gas-to-energy (especially since there is some buzz in Lansing
about ways to increase the amount of gas produced in landfills). I
thought different perspectives were welcome on this listserv. Perhaps
only when the don't differ from the moderator...

Glad we are discussing these important issues, though. I wish there was
more state leadership around decreasing energy consumption in the
discussion of energy policy, in addition to shifting to renewable energy
generation.

Cheers,
Julie

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexander J. Sagady [mailto:ajs@sagady.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:15 PM
To: Julie Metty Bennett; enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
Subject: RE: E-M:/ RE: / Out of state trash/Granholm/waste incineration

The two Free Press articles...

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770828022

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007708290377

....don't say anything at all about landfill gas utilization.

However, they do
discuss Granholm offering up Michigan public forest lands for 
energy companies.   I guess we'll just burn up (or gasify) our public 
forest resources for energy and fuels, producing new carbon dioxide
emissions, while we decrease the carbon sequestration implicit with our
forests.....and then call this all "renewable energy."


At 07:43 PM 08/29/2007, Julie Metty Bennett wrote:
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>-- Enviro-Mich message from "Julie Metty Bennett" <jmetty@pscinc.com>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>
>Just my analysis from reading the Freep article, Alex. I am not as 
>quick to jump to the conclusion that the sky is falling as some.
>
>Julie
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alexander J. Sagady [mailto:ajs@sagady.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 5:28 PM
>To: Julie Metty Bennett; enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
>Subject: Re: E-M:/ RE: / Out of state trash/Granholm/waste incineration
>
>Julie, how do your know that is what Granholm meant?   Most of the time
>when
>there is discussion of using MSW for energy and steam, it means 
>building
>
>MSW-fired combustion units (i.e. incinerators with energy recovery).
>
>If you have evidence that it is landfill gas that is what Granholm 
>meant, then please
>post it.   But also note that many landfills must already do landfill
>gas recovery
>under Clean Air Act regulation, so any emphasis on this as some kind of

>new visionary policy is misplaced.
>
>Frankly, if Granholm thinks it is desirable environmental, social and 
>economic policy for Michigan that other states send their municipal 
>solid waste to Michigan and then somehow landfill gas recovery is the 
>bright spot for this....then that is just trying to put a pretty face 
>on Michigan as everyone else's dumping ground.....Michigan as the 
>region's MSW pay-toilet for disposal.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 03:02 PM 08/29/2007, Julie Metty Bennett wrote:
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-
>--
>>Enviro-Mich message from "Julie Metty Bennett" <jmetty@pscinc.com>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-
>--
>>
>>Sorry, my point was directed at your belief that she is supporting 
>>incineration. So I will restate:
>>
>>Capturing energy from waste doesn't have to involve incineration. I 
>>think she was talking about landfill gas recovery.
>>
>>Now feel free to shift the discussion to how bad landfill gas recovery

>>operations are.
>>
>>J
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Alexander J. Sagady [mailto:ajs@sagady.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:27 PM
>>To: Julie Metty Bennett; enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
>>Subject: RE: / Out of state trash/Granholm/waste incineration
>>
>>At 10:59 AM 08/29/2007, you wrote:
>>>Capturing energy from waste doesn't have to involve combustion. I
>think
>>
>>>she was talking about landfill gas recovery.
>>
>>In general, landfill gas recovered from landfills is hardly ever 
>>used for pipeline gas.   Almost all landfill gas recovery is used 
>>in conjunction with onsite gas fired engines for electricity
>generation.
>>
>>Where landfill gas contains chlorinated hydrocarbons, those same gas 
>>fired engines do generate polychlorinated dibenzo dioxins/furans.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net 
>>>[mailto:owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net] On Behalf Of Alex J. 
>>>Sagady
>
>>>& Associates
>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:20 AM
>>>To: enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
>>>Subject: E-M:/ Out of state trash/Granholm/waste incineration
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>-
>-
>>>-
>>>-
>>>Enviro-Mich message from "Alex J. Sagady & Associates"
><ajs@sagady.com>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>-
>-
>>>-
>>>-
>>>
>>>On Michigan Public Radio Tuesday evening it was mentioned about how 
>>>Governor Granholm thinks out of state trash coming into Michigan can
>be
>>
>>>turned into an advantage for Michigan because is can be subjected to 
>>>waste-to-energy treatment like in Sweden.
>>>
>>>Assuming this was a correct rendition of what she said, I've really
>got
>>
>>>to wonder about the kind of advice Granholm has been getting.
>>>
>>>Is it possible that Granholm is/was totally oblivious to the entire 
>>>Detroit Incinerator debacle?   From the standpoint of airborne
>>>toxicants, 
>>>trash combustion is one of the worst fuels you can use.   And the 
>>>economics of trash to energy have also been fairly disastrous for 
>>>Detroit.   Why would other states pay high tipping fees at MSW
>>>incinerators when they can dump more cheaply in Michigan landfills?
>>>
>>>
>>>==========================================
>>>Alex J. Sagady & Associates        http://www.sagady.com
>>>
>>>Environmental Enforcement, Permit/Technical Review, Public Policy, 
>>>Expert Witness Review and Litigation Investigation on Air, Water and 
>>>Waste/Community Environmental and Resource Protection Prospectus at:
>>>http://www.sagady.com/sagady.pdf
>>>
>>>657 Spartan Avenue,  East Lansing, MI  48823
>>>(517) 332-6971; (517) 332-8987 (fax); ajs@sagady.com 
>>>==========================================
>>>
>>>
>>>==============================================================
>>>ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan Environmental
>>>and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives
>>at
>>>http://www.great-lakes.net/lists/enviro-mich/
>>>
>>>Postings to:  enviro-mich@great-lakes.net      For info, send email
to
>>>majordomo@great-lakes.net  with a one-line message body of  "info 
>>>enviro-mich"
>>>==============================================================
>>
>>==========================================
>>Alex J. Sagady & Associates        http://www.sagady.com
>>
>>Environmental Enforcement, Permit/Technical Review, Public Policy, 
>>Expert Witness Review and Litigation Investigation on Air, Water and 
>>Waste/Community Environmental and Resource Protection Prospectus at:
>>http://www.sagady.com/sagady.pdf
>>
>>657 Spartan Avenue,  East Lansing, MI  48823
>>(517) 332-6971; (517) 332-8987 (fax); ajs@sagady.com 
>>==========================================
>>
>>
>>ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan Environmental
>>and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives
>at
>>http://www.great-lakes.net/lists/enviro-mich/
>>
>>Postings to:  enviro-mich@great-lakes.net      For info, send email to
>>majordomo@great-lakes.net  with a one-line message body of  "info
>enviro-mich"
>
>==========================================
>Alex J. Sagady & Associates        http://www.sagady.com
>
>Environmental Enforcement, Permit/Technical Review, Public Policy, 
>Expert Witness Review and Litigation Investigation on Air, Water and 
>Waste/Community Environmental and Resource Protection Prospectus at:  
>http://www.sagady.com/sagady.pdf
>
>657 Spartan Avenue,  East Lansing, MI  48823
>(517) 332-6971; (517) 332-8987 (fax); ajs@sagady.com 
>==========================================
>
>
>ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan Environmental
>and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives
at
>http://www.great-lakes.net/lists/enviro-mich/
>
>Postings to:  enviro-mich@great-lakes.net      For info, send email to
>majordomo@great-lakes.net  with a one-line message body of  "info
enviro-mich"

==========================================
Alex J. Sagady & Associates        http://www.sagady.com

Environmental Enforcement, Permit/Technical Review, Public Policy,
Expert Witness Review and Litigation Investigation on Air, Water and
Waste/Community Environmental and Resource Protection Prospectus at:
http://www.sagady.com/sagady.pdf 

657 Spartan Avenue,  East Lansing, MI  48823
(517) 332-6971; (517) 332-8987 (fax); ajs@sagady.com
==========================================  


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