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RE: E-M:/ More on phragmites on our minds



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Enviro-Mich message from "Matthew Dykstra" <dykstram@cedarcreekinstitute.org>
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One thing about phragmites that no one has mentioned is that it has a fairly
high salt tolerance, particularly the invasive genotypes.  This contributes
to its association with roadways, particularly in urban areas with their
high road salt contributions.  

In my experience glyphosate (you have to use Rodeo, the aquatic version of
Roundup) works quite well.  Applicators need to be careful, but generally
within a stand there isn't much else growing.

Matthew Dykstra
Education Director
 
Pierce Cedar Creek Institute
701 West Cloverdale Road
Hastings, MI  49508
(269) 721-4473
(269) 721-4474-fax
dykstram@cedarcreekinstitute.org

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
[mailto:owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Mutch
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:13 AM
To: enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
Subject: RE: E-M:/ More on phragmites on our minds

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Enviro-Mich message from Andrew Mutch <andrewimutch@yahoo.com>
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My neighbor planted some of this years ago along the
property line between our houses. Even though the area
is only mildy wet due to a swale that conveys water to
a small ditch, it thrives as if it was in a wetland.
It easily grows over 10 feet tall and the runners will
go out 5 - 15 feet and can go through just about
anything. A couple of years ago, it got so thick that
he cut and burned it down to the ground. By the next
summer, it had grown back so quickly you wouldn't have
known that he had ever touched it. As a natural
barrier, it's no wonder that it destroys habitat as
it's almost impossible to move through it. 

Andrew Mutch
Novi


--- Brian Creek <brianc@gtlakes.com> wrote:

>
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> Enviro-Mich message from "Brian Creek"
> <brianc@gtlakes.com>
>
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> 
> Those are all good questions.  Here is a good
> discussion of the plant.  
> 
> http://www.invasiveplants.net/phragmites/Default.htm
> 
> 
> According to the authors, it is not clear if it is
> native to the US or not,
> but it probably was in one variety or another.  I
> had always heard it
> referred to as "Giant Reed," and it was not uncommon
> in SE Michigan when I
> worked for the metroparks in the early 1980's,
> especially down river.
> 
> Soils could be composted to kill the rhizomes and
> seeds, or they could be
> fumigated.  I would think that simply running the
> soil through a shredder
> would lower the concentration of the root stocks,
> but would probably enhance
> seed distribution.  Maybe they could pump it into
> the abandoned salt mines
> under Detroit.
> 
> Application of a glyphosphate herbicide would
> probably be the best control
> of live plants, but does nothing to impact seeds. 
> And yes it is
> non-selective so you would need skilled applicators.
>  Hardy, dedicated,
> skilled, applicators - cause they'll be slogging
> through a thick, mucky
> marsh.
> 
> The plant has been spread by the landscape trade
> because it has a pretty
> shape and winter interest, plus it's really tall and
> something different.
> Remind you of anything else taking over our
> wetlands?
> 
> Not going to be an easy fix, that's for sure.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
> [mailto:owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net] On Behalf
> Of Alexander J. Sagady
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 5:48 PM
> To: ldnum@umich.edu; enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
> Subject: Re: E-M:/ More on phragmites on our minds
> 
>
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> Enviro-Mich message from "Alexander J. Sagady"
> <ajs@sagady.com>
>
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> 
> I understand the phragmites puts down roots up to 4
> feet.   Unless
> these are some kind of venemous moths, how can a
> biological control be
> expected to knock out fragmites if the biological
> control
> is based on moths eating the upper part of the
> plant.   Do these
> moths colonize the root system with their pupae and
> destroy those roots
> (i.e. the plant equivalent to the Alien movie)? 
> If the roots aren't destroyed, won't phragmites come
> bounding back a couple
> of years after biological attack on the plant
> superstructure?
> 
> Your previous posting that road construction is
> spreading phragmites raises
> several relevant points, not the least of which what
> techniques of earth
> moving could be used to keep from spreading
> phragmites, should phragmites
> spread become part of the environmental impact of
> road building projects,
> what do you do with up to 4 feet of soil
> contaminated with phragmites
> rhizomes and should we involve the union of
> operating engineers (power
> equipment operator union) and soil
> movement/construction contractors in
> discussions about work practices to reduced
> phragmites spread.
> 
> I noted the recent MDEQ phragmites control
> demonstration project 
> up on the Saginaw Bay shoreline.   They did call it
> a demonstration.
> Are phragmites control techniques already proven, or
> is this part of 
> seeing what might work?   Is someone actually going
> to write a 
> scientific paper about this, including enough
> tracking in time to see if
> phragmites comes back?
> 
> I fear that something as drastic as herbicide
> control  is necessary to get
> at this problem, but wonder whether the herbicides
> being used are capable of
> killing off all of the subsurface structures of
> phragmites.
> I'm pretty sure those are wide spectrum herbicides
> so they might also kill
> desirable vegetation as well....but if phragmites
> has an ace in the hole
> with deep roots that escape treatment, I fear that
> it will just grow back.
> 
> Like the YouTube movie
> mentioned....."phragmites"....a four letter word
> with
> more than 4 letters.....
> 
> By the way....how did European strains of phragmites
> make it over to 
> the U.S. anyway??   Who/what is to blame for that?
> 
> 
> At 04:55 PM 09/19/2007, ldnum@umich.edu wrote:
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >-- Enviro-Mich message from ldnum@umich.edu
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >--
> >
> >This sounds very promising.   Something is holding
> Phragmites down in
> Europe; it certainly looks benign there.  However,
> these biocontrols do need
> to be tested carefully for collateral damage.
> >
> >--On Wednesday, September 19, 2007 4:07 PM -0400
> "Alex J. Sagady &
> Associates" <ajs@sagady.com> wrote:
> >
>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>--- Enviro-Mich message from "Alex J. Sagady &
> Associates" 
> >><ajs@sagady.com>
>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>---
> >>
> >>I just received this EM posting attempt....
> >>
> >>Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:24:18 -0400
> >>From: "Donald Sneed" <SneedDo@michigan.gov>
> >>To: <enviro-mich@great-lakes.net>
> >>Subject: Pharagimtes
> >>
> >>Cornell University is undertaking a Bio-Control
> method using shoot 
> >>mining noctuid moths from Europe to control 
> Phragmites. They are in 
> >>the early stages process of testing, hopefully
> this will work just as 
> >>the beetles  did in Purple Loosestrife. The
> contact person is Bernd 
> >>Blossey!!
> >>
> >>==========================================
> >>Alex J. Sagady & Associates       
> http://www.sagady.com
> >>
> >>Environmental Enforcement, Permit/Technical
> Review, Public Policy, 
> >>Expert Witness Review and Litigation Investigation
> on Air, Water and 
> >>Waste/Community Environmental and Resource
> Protection Prospectus at:  
> >>http://www.sagady.com/sagady.pdf
> >>
> >>657 Spartan Avenue,  East Lansing, MI  48823
> >>(517) 332-6971; (517) 332-8987 (fax);
> ajs@sagady.com 
> >>==========================================
> >>
> >>
>
>>==============================================================
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> >>and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen
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> >>enviro-mich"
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> 
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