[Date Prev][Date Next][Date Index]

RE: E-M:/ The Clean Energy Scam



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enviro-Mich message from "Brian Creek" <brianc@gtlakes.com>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeahbut, if oil wasn't $100/bbl, no one would be growing corn to make
ethanol.  I had the same thought that you expressed, that ag chemical and
fertilizer prices were, in large part, related to demand, but then realized
that the market for ethanol didn't kick into high gear until oil prices shot
up, which seems to be Aaron's point.  And many of these compounds are
derived from fossil fuels in the first place, which now cost more because of
the spike in raw material prices.

Hey!  Perpetual motion in an economic engine!

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
[mailto:owner-enviro-mich@great-lakes.net] On Behalf Of Larry Nooden
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 1:42 PM
To: enviro-mich@great-lakes.net
Subject: Re: E-M:/ The Clean Energy Scam

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enviro-Mich message from Larry Nooden <ldnum@umich.edu>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, rising oil and natural gas prices are contributing to the increases in 
food prices; however, the diversions resulting from ethanol production also 
make a substantial contribution to the problem and that is well-documented 
(see e.g. the Time article).  In fact, if you follow the discussions of 
what/why farmers are deciding to plant this spring, you can see this 
problem unfolding.

--On Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:20 AM -0700 Aaron Wissner 
<aaronwissner@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Keep in mind that all of these impacts, fertilizer
> price increases, ethanol production increases, etc,
> are directly due to rising oil and natural gas prices.
>
> The reasons oil and natural gas prices are rising is
> simple.  For oil, there has been no global increase in
> production/extraction for nearly 4 years... but
> demand, of course, has been increasing.  This has led
> to the rise in prices, and the drive for ethanol
> production.
>
> For natural gas, North American production/extraction
> peaked a few years ago, which means that the natural
> gas supply is not increasing... but, of course, the
> demand is increasing... which means that the price has
> increased... which in turn has led to a major shift in
> both prices and production of fertilizer (since it is
> made from natural gas).
>
> We'll be learning a lot more about this at the "Peak
> Oil and Climate Change: Paths to Sustainability"
> conference in Grand Rapids in May.
> http://sustainabilityconference.org  You may notice,
> that we have tracks on both transportation and on
> farming.
>
> As we (as a global culture) continue to burn up
> natural gas and oil, we will see innumerable impacts,
> everywhere.  Food production, for one, is on the edge
> of a very drastic change, and one that few expect.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- William Tobler <williamtobler@critterswoods.org>
> wrote:
>
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Enviro-Mich message from "William Tobler"
>> <williamtobler@critterswoods.org>
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I have read recently in different Farm Magazine
>> articles about how the beef
>> industry is being rocked by the high price of cattle
>> food, and separately,
>> how the dairy industry will be impacted by the lack
>> of alfalfa and hay
>> production because the land is going into
>> corn-for-ethanol production.
>>
>> The price of nitrogen fertilizer has taken huge
>> increases in the last two
>> years, and I hear that this year will be 50% higher
>> than last year (because
>> of competition from corn-for-ethanol).  So this is
>> rippling through the
>> entire ag community and its customers.
>>
>> One of our local farmers is now using Ann Arbor
>> sewage sludge on his fields,
>> and this is causing quite a community concern
>> because of the horrible odors
>> and eColi counts in the roadside ditches and creeks
>> which are 10 times the
>> "acceptable" levels.  He is spraying on saturated
>> and frozen ground, and not
>> incorporating into the soil until he gets around to
>> it.  His "permit" allows
>> a huge amount of liquid waste per square foot, far
>> more than would be
>> expected to be "absorbed" by the soil.  Just another
>> form of the CAFO
>> problem, but this time with human manure.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Larry Nooden" <ldnum@umich.edu>
>> To: <enviro-mich@great-lakes.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 11:29 AM
>> Subject: E-M:/ The Clean Energy Scam
>>
>>
>> >
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Enviro-Mich message from Larry Nooden
>> <ldnum@umich.edu>
>> >
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > That's the title of the cover article in the
>> April 7 issue of Time
>> > magazine
>> >
>>
> (<http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1725975,00.html>).
>> >
>> > "Hyped as an eco-friendly fuel, ethanol increases
>> global warming, destroys
>> > forests and inflates food prices."  As these food
>> price increases ripple
>> > through the global trading web, they are
>> contributing to social/political
>> > instability in places like Pakistan.  So, why are
>> we subsidizing it?
>> >
>> > The article addresses these issues in an
>> easy-to-read, nontechnical
>> > manner. It seems important that the public and our
>> political
>> > representatives understand these issues better.
>> >
>> > 365 = the number of days one person could be fed
>> on the corn needed to
>> > fill (once) the tank of an SUV.  Hmm.
>> >
>> > Even though there are some problems, I believe
>> that there are some ethanol
>> > production methods that will be net producers of
>> energy and will help to
>> > ameliorate environmental problems.
>> >
>> > The other "green" energy technologies seem
>> vulnerable to the same scammers
>> > and will need to be applied with good sense.
>> >
>> >
>>
> ==============================================================
>> > ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan
>> Environmental
>> > and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen
>> Action.   Archives at
>> > http://www.great-lakes.net/lists/enviro-mich/
>> >
>> > Postings to:  enviro-mich@great-lakes.net      For
>> info, send email to
>> > majordomo@great-lakes.net  with a one-line message
>> body of  "info
>> > enviro-mich"
>> >
>>
> ==============================================================
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ==============================================================
>> ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan
>> Environmental
>> and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen
>> Action.   Archives at
>> http://www.great-lakes.net/lists/enviro-mich/
>>
>> Postings to:  enviro-mich@great-lakes.net      For
>> info, send email to
>> majordomo@great-lakes.net  with a one-line message
>> body of  "info enviro-mich"
>>
> ==============================================================
>>
>
>
> Aaron Wissner
> aaron@localfuture.org
> Value System Journal: Peak Oil & Sustainability
> http://valuesystem.livejournal.com
> Local Future Network
> http://localfuture.org
> Peak Oil Videos
> http://www.youtube.com/newculture
> Sustainability Conference
> http://sustainabilityconference.org
>
>



==============================================================
ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan Environmental
and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives at
http://www.great-lakes.net/lists/enviro-mich/

Postings to:  enviro-mich@great-lakes.net      For info, send email to
majordomo@great-lakes.net  with a one-line message body of  "info
enviro-mich"
==============================================================


==============================================================
ENVIRO-MICH:  Internet List and Forum for Michigan Environmental
and Conservation Issues and Michigan-based Citizen Action.   Archives at
http://www.great-lakes.net/lists/enviro-mich/

Postings to:  enviro-mich@great-lakes.net      For info, send email to
majordomo@great-lakes.net  with a one-line message body of  "info enviro-mich"
==============================================================