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Informal EMS Survey Results



Hi Folks,

Remember last week when I said that I was changing jobs and that I
wouldn't be posting any more messages on P2Tech?  Well.... I lied. 
Sorry.

Finishing up one more project associated with the old job and
remembered that I promised to post the results of my informal EMS
survey to P2 Tech.  Wouldn't you know it? - an old PPIS Grant Final
Progress Report was holding me up.  I'm sure that none of you have ever
been late with these things!!

Anyway, attached in ASCII text format, please find the running e-mail
results of the 19 or so responses I received from my informal EMS
survey of a few weeks ago.

Use as you see fit.  Delete if that works for you too.   

Farewell again -- this time it's for real!

Vince Perelli - Senior Planner
Formerly P2 Program Manager
NH Department of Environmental Services
6 Hazen Drive
Concord, NH 03301
603 271-2902  (to change in a couple of weeks)
603 271-2867
v_perelli@des.state.nh.us  (to stay the same) 
From:        Vincent R. Perelli
To:          p2tech
Date:        2/3/99 2:00pm
Subject:     An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance

Hi Folks,

Please indulge me on a very simple (three easy questions), informal, unofficial, unsanctioned, "I'm just curious" kind of survey
regarding Environmental Management Systems (EMS).  This e-mail is primarily directed to assistance providers of all walks
of life (Environmental Agency-based or separately-run P2 Programs, SBTAPs, SBDC's, NIST/MEPs, University Programs,
etc).  

Some background:  NH is one of the eight or so states piloting EMS projects.  The P2 Program of the NH Department of
Environmental Services is peripherally involved in the project.  You know the saying, "better late than never?"  Well..... NH
never passed a mandatory P2 Planning or Toxics Use Reduction Law in the late  80s/early  90s, and only recently (it's at the
printer as I write) developed a Pollution Prevention Planning Guide incorporating much of the problem-solving and quality
tools discussed in the lively dialogue that recently broke out on this list serve.  I think we finally "get it" in NH.  Great, timely
stuff.  I really appreciated the opportunity to see the discussion unfold - I still need to go back and crunch the information.  

I've been thinking a lot lately about the "silver bullet," throw them a bunch of fish approach vs. the help them build an
"infrastructure for success," "teach them to fish" approach associated with P2 Planning and EMSs.

I have three simple questions for any of you who choose to respond.   Yes's or No's will suffice for now for simplicity's sake. 
Please respond directly to me.  I will certainly compile the results and get them back out to anyone who is interested.  

1)  Does your program currently offer EMS-related assistance of any sort: outreach literature, workshops, or on-site work (gap
analysis type assistance) - anything that might get a company thinking about the EMS or possible certification down the line? 
If you are one of the eight EMS pilot project states - let me know that too.  

2) If you are not currently offering EMS-related assistance, do you have intentions of doing so sometime in the future?  and
finally,

3)  Do staff have any official EMS training or specific EMS credentials?  (For example: I attended (on my own time and money)
a week-long EMS Lead Auditor Training Course, passed the exam, and am currently working with the Registrar's Accreditation
Board on EMS Auditor credentials).  If you were wondering, no, we don't have any intention of conducting certification or
registration audits -- I just wanted to learn about the EMS in great detail and felt the such credentials would lend credibility to
my program.

That's it.  Thanks for your participation.   

Vince Perelli, M.S.
NH Department of Environmental Services
Pollution Prevention Program
6 Hazen Drive
Concord, NH 03301
603 271-2902
603 271-2456
v_perelli@des.state.nh.us


From:  "Peter Crawford" <pcrawfor@vtc.vsc.edu>
To:  WMD1.WMDPOST(WMVRP)
Date:  2/3/99 2:20pm
Subject: Re: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance

YES, PILOT WITH ANR, WORKSHOP SERIES, ON-SITE PROGRAM EVALUATION

NO, WE ARE USING SAME CONSULTANT AS NH, WHICH WE ARE NOT TOTALLY SATISFYIED WITH, THEY
HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO SIMPLIFY/CLARIFY COMPLEX PROCESS..GOT A REALLY GOOD TRAINIING
POWERPOINT SUMMARY FROM ONE OF THE COMPANY'S CONSULTANT.  ALSO ANR IS DISCUSSING
POSIBILITY OF WAIVING P2 PLANNING REQUIREMENT FOR AN EMS.

Peter Crawford
Vermont Small Business Development Center
Environmental Assistance for Business,Program Director
PO Box 422
Randolph, VT 05060
802-728-1423
e: pcrawfor@vtc.vsc.edu

From: Rusty Harris-Bishop <Rusty_Harris-Bishop@p2pays.org>
To:    "'Vincent R. Perelli'" <v_perelli@des.state.nh.us>
Date:  2/3/99 2:37pm
Subject: RE: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance

I'm not sure if you'll hear from more than one in North Carolina (Beth Graves and John Burke may respond also), but I'll give
it a shot.

1)Yes, the state of NC is part of the MSWG pilot program.  We offer our pilot facilities our expertise in EMS, opportunities
to network, let them know about training, and 8 hours of our time per week in whatever capacity they need us (like on-site gap
analysis work or other site visits, or just compiling
compliance data for the pilot data collection).

3) I believe all the staff in our office participating with the pilot facilities have had some kind of EMS ISO 14001 training.  Most
have take the week-long Lead Auditor Training, while others have taken the Internal Auditor training.  

Rusty Harris-Bishop
NC Division of Pollution Prevention & Environmental Assistance
919/733-4398
919/715-6794 fax
Rusty_Harris-Bishop@p2pays.org


From:        Jeff Cantin <jcantin@tiac.net>
To:          "Vincent R. Perelli" <v_perelli@des.state.nh.us>
Date:        2/3/99 2:48pm
Subject:     Re: An unofficial survey  - Environmental ManagementSystemAssistance

Could you fill me in a bit on the 8 states EMS pilot project?  I'm not quite in the NPPR loop since I'm a contractor, not a state
TAP person.  

ERG is involved in several EMS-related projects for EPA and, through our sister company The Lexington Group, I have done
a fair bit of industry EMS work.  We currently have a contract to support EPA's Environmental Leadership Program once (if)
it gets the go ahead for national rollout.  We would be doing onsite EMS reviews of facilities applying for ELP recognition.

If you are thinking about doing anything with the state on EMS, I'd like to recommend that you get in touch with Richard Wells
of The Lexington Group. He is based here in Lexington, MA in our offices.  Richard is a bona fide EMS expert with many years
experience consulting to EPA and other government agencies.  He is currently working with Mass DEM on an EMS for the
dept itself, and has developed and directed some innovative EMS mentoring projects under World Bank sponsorship (see
Harvard Business Review, Nov-Dec 98).  I'd be happy to get a brochure and resume out to you, or you could call Richard
yourself at (781) 674-7306.

Jeff Cantin
ERG, Inc. Eastern Research Group www.erg.com
110 Hartwell Ave.
Lexington, MA 02424-3136
jcantin@erg.com
jcantin@tiac.net

From:        "Kirsten Koepsel" <kkoepsel@arrirs04.uta.edu>
To:          "Vincent R. Perelli" <v_perelli@des.state.nh.us>
Date:        2/3/99 2:55pm
Subject:     Re: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance

I work for the MEP(Metroplex region) in Texas and here are my  responses.
1)  Yes, we are in the process of implementing ISO 14401 at a small manufacturer. Have 2 joint ISO 9000/14401 projects in
pipeline. All without advertising.
2) NA
3) If you were wondering, no, we don t have any intention of conducting certification or registration audits -- I just wanted to
learn about the EMS in great detail and felt the such credentials would lend credibility to my program. 3 of us took the ISO
14001 lead auditor training class and passed the exam. I am trying to become an auditor.

Kirsten M. Koepsel
Texas Manufacturing Assistance Center
7300 Jack Newell Blvd., South
Fort Worth, TX  76118
817-272-5925
817-272-5977 (fax)
kkoepsel@arri.uta.edu (e-mail)

From:        MARC HANCOCK <MHANCOCK@dem.state.in.us>
To:          WMD1.WMDPOST(WMVRP)
Date:        2/3/99 4:22pm
Subject:     Re: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance

My name is Marc Hancock and I work for the Indiana Department of Environmental Management.  Indiana is one of the states
participating in the ISO pilot projects with EPA.  I have met and talked with Bob Minicucci of NH Dept. of Environmental
Services - Water Division at the state/EPA ISO meetings.  My phone number is (317) 233-1043.  Now to answer your survey:

1.  We are one of the ISO pilot project states.  Assistance is provided via phone conversations, distribution of helpful ISO
materials, and some limited on-site assistance.  On-site assistance is given mainly to the pilot facilities.  Due to the time
commitment for managing these pilots, It is doubtful that much time for on-site assistance to non-pilot facilities will be
available.
2.  See response to #1 above.
3.  I believe that I am the only person in our agency to have taken a week long accreditated Lead Auditor course.  I too passed
the exam.  However, their are a couple of other people who are seriously considering taking the Lead Auditor course.

From:        "Moulton, Peter T" <Peter.T.Moulton@state.me.us>
To:          "Vincent R. Perelli" <v_perelli@DES.State.NH.US>
Date:        2/3/99 3:28pm
Subject:     RE: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System As  sistance

1) Yes.  We sponsored two satellite teleconferences on ISO 14000 a couple of years ago (one through the Manufacturing
Extension Partnership - MEP - Which I think you have heard of, and one through the University of Missouri).  They came
within a month of each other, and were both close to when the   
ISO 14000 standards were officially released. We also sponsored a 2 - 3 day conference on EMS's where a consultant came
in and told us (DEP staff and companies) all about ISO 14000 and EMS's. I do not think we are one of the eight EMS pilot
project states.
2)Yes.  Our EMS related assistance is as shown above, plus we answer the few questions that occur as they come up. We hope
to be getting companies all the information they can use in the future and make them aware of this tool.
3) Yes. Wow, on your own time and money! I hope you did not go to the Lead Auditor Training given about 2 -3    months
ago that my supervisor (David McCaskill - I do not think you know  him, although he is on the "Clean Team" at Baker and C
M Almy.) and someone else here went to.  It was in Reston, Virginia (actually at a conference center at Dulles Airport).  It was
a week long and cost a few bucks ($1500 - $2500, I forget which).  So . . .We have two people who have attended a week long
Lead Auditor Training  course.

Peter T. Moulton
Division of Technical Services, Bureau of Remediation
State of Maine Department of Environmental Protection
State House Station #17
Augusta, ME  04333
tel. 207-287-8161   Fax. 207-287-7826
Peter.T.Moulton@state.me.us
case (upper or lower) does not matter on email address

From:        "Dooley, Richard S." <RICHARD.S.DOOLEY@cpmx.saic.com>
To:          "Vincent R. Perelli" <v_perelli@des.state.nh.us>
Date:        2/3/99 4:17pm
Subject:     RE: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance

1) I work in SAIC's (consulting firm) pollution prevention division. One primary work assignment which has kept me quite
busy over the last couple of years is one which has me assisting US EPA Federal Facility Coordinators in conducting
Environmental Management Reviews (EMRs) at Federal facilities.  More information on the EMR program can be found at:
  http://es.epa.gov/oeca/fedfac/emr3oct.pdf
If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me by e-mail or phone (804-984-3562).
3)The EMR program is designed in part to train EPA Regional staff in how to conduct an EMR.  How well and how quickly
the staff person picks up on the process somewhat depends on the interest level of each person (i.e., do you they want to add
EMRs to their compliance assistance toolbox, or would they rather stick with compliance and P2-related compliance assistance
activities).

Richard Dooley, Environmental Management Specialist
SAIC                            
251 Ridge-McIntire Rd      
Charlottesville, VA  22903
(804) 984-3562-voice            
(804) 984-4075-fax
                      
From:        "Christine Twait" <twait@uni.edu>
To:          WMD1.WMDPOST(WMVRP)
Date:        2/3/99 6:15pm
Subject:     your survey

Marci Carter from our office filled out your survey with the following responses:

1.  Yes
2.  NA, since #1 is yes
3.  I'm an RAB certified ISO 14001 auditor with 4 audits under my belt.

Christine Twait, Program Manager
Iowa Waste Reduction Center
1005 Technology Parkway
Cedar Falls, IA 50613
319/273-8905
319/268-3733 (fax)
twait@uni.edu

From:        JOHN SPARKS <SPARKS.JOHN@epamail.epa.gov>
To:          WMD1.WMDPOST(WMVRP)
Date:        2/3/99 4:34pm
Subject:     An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance-Reply

It has been awhile since we met at the solvents workshop in Vermont.  I was just looking at your request for EMS material. 
We at DfE do not have much on this but are interested.  When your pub is ready could you please send me a copy at the address
below.  
Thanks and it's good to see you are still "in the game"!

John O. Sparks
USEPA, Design for the Environment
401 M St. , SW  (MC 7406)
Washington, DC 20460
Telephone 202-260-1682
FAX 202-260-0981
e-mail sparks.john@epamail.epa.gov

From:        FITZGERALD Marianne <FITZGERALD.Marianne@deq.state.or.us>
To:          "'Vincent R. Perelli'" <v_perelli@des.state.nh.us>
Date:        2/3/99 5:06pm
Subject:     RE: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance

Hi, Vince.  Oregon is one of the eight states and Bob M. in your office should have a copy of our latest materials.  We think
EMSs are great and have built a whole incentives programs around EMSs.  I've trained about 15 inspectors in a customized
version of lead auditor training (it was easier to justify three days of training than five, and I think we needed more emphasis
on the EMS part of the training than the auditor part of the training).  We do a limited amount of EMS TA, but I also wanted
our inspectors to be encouraging them when working with facilities.  We have a very limited TA program but the private sector
has been good about promoting EMSs in virtually every recent workshop agenda I've seen, and I've been on the speaking tour
a lot.  Call if you want more info, (503) 229-5946.  
Marianne Fitzgerald
Oregon DEQ

From:  "JOHN BERNARDO" <JBERNARD@DEQ.STATE.ID.US>
To:    WMD1.WMDPOST(WMVRP)
Date:  2/3/99 6:11pm
Subject:    Re: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance

Yes to question one, though we're not one of the 8 states.
No to the next two questions.

John A. Bernardo
P2 Coordinator, Idaho DEQ
1410 N. Hilton
Boise, ID  83706
(208) 373-0114  phone
(208) 373-0169 fax
jbernard@deq.state.id.us

From:        Thomas Barron <tsbarron@ibm.net>
To:          "Vincent R. Perelli" <v_perelli@des.state.nh.us>
Date:        2/3/99 11:48pm
Subject:     Re: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management SystemAssistance

Last year I did a 1-day training workshop in environmental management systems for Washington State Dept. of Ecology.  We
structured it around a series of case studies about sites with EMSs, and had site
representatives come to the workshops.
I have an extra copy of the workbook if you would be interested.  Please let me know.
Tom Barron
P2 Consultant

From:  "Hillenbrand, Steve" <sjhillenbrand@tva.gov>
To:    "'Vincent R. Perelli'" <v_perelli@des.state.nh.us>
Date:  2/4/99 7:42am
Subject:    RE: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance

See answers in red below.  I am answering for one small (4 of us) group (Process & Prevention Services) that specializes in
P2 and helping industry in 7 states.  There are several other groups in TVA that practice P2 and they may answer also (this is
forwarded to them).

Steve Hillenbrand, Industrial Waste Reduction Engineer
Process & Prevention Services, Tennessee Valley Authority
(423) 632-8489; (423) 632-3616 (fax)
sjhillenbrand@tva.gov
TVA P&PS HomePage  www.tva.gov/orgs/iwr/iwrhome.htm

1)  Yes.  We try to incorporate P2 into the corporate culture at any level we can, including of course EMS.
2) NA
3) Two of the four in our group are CHMM

From:        "Doug Keivit-Kylar" <DOUGK@dec.anr.state.vt.us>
To:          WMD1.WMDPOST(WMVRP)
Date:        2/4/99 7:49am
Subject:     Re: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance

1) AS YOU ALREADY KNOW, WE ARE ALSO A PILOT STATE  AND GARY HAS TAKEN THE LEAD ON HELPING
APPROXIMATELY A DOZEN BUSINESSES DEVELOP AN EMS. 
IT'S ROUGH GOING AS YOU CAN IMAGINE. WE ALSO PROMOTED EMS WITHIN THE LODGING SECTOR, BUT
HAVE SINCE BACKED DOWN, AVOIDING THE JARGON, AND NOW HELP THEM TO DEVELOP JARGON-FREE
(AND MUCH SIMPLIFIED) ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT PLANS.

2)YOU MIGHT WISH TO TALK TO GARY ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCE AND HIS INTENTIONS, BUT I'LL BORROW
CONCEPTS AND STEAR CLEAR OF THE FULL BLOWN EMS.

3) NONE OF US ON STAFF HAVE OFFICIAL EMS TRAINING OR SPECIFIC EMS CREDENTIALS. GARY AND I
HAVE BOTH DONE SOME READING ABOUT EMS, WE PURCHASED AND REVIEWED THE UNEP TRAINING
GUIDE ON EMS, AND CONTRACTED THE ACTUAL TRAINING TO THE SAME CONSULTANT NH USES.

Doug Kievit-Kylar, Pollution Prevention Planner
Vermont Agency of Natural Resources
Environmental Assistance Division
103 South Main Street
Waterbury   VT   05671-0411
phone: (802) 241-3628
FAX: (802) 241-3273
e-mail: Doug.Kievit-Kylar@anrmail.anr.state.vt.us
"Smart people solve problems. Geniuses prevent them."
-- The wisdom of Albert Einstein --

From:        John Burke <John_Burke@p2pays.org>
To:          "Vincent R. Perelli" <v_perelli@des.state.nh.us>
Date:        2/4/99 10:27am
Subject:     RE: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance

John Burke
North Carolina  Division of Pollution Prevention and Environmental Assistance
3 Hillcrest Cr.
Lexington, NC 27292
Phone: 336-249-1480
Fax: 336-238-1211
Email: john_burke@p2pays.org
Web: http://www.p2pays.org

1)Yes, we are part of the MSWG project and provide assistance through all three mechanisms you discuss

3) All staff working on EMS have had lead auditor training and have passed the course.

From:        "Hillenbrand, Steve" <sjhillenbrand@tva.gov>
To:          "'Vincent R. Perelli'" <v_perelli@des.state.nh.us>
Date:        2/5/99 8:34am
Subject:     RE: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management System Assistance -Reply

Steve Hillenbrand, Industrial Waste Reduction Engineer
Process & Prevention Services, Tennessee Valley Authority
(423) 632-8489; (423) 632-3616 (fax)
sjhillenbrand@tva.gov
TVA P&PS HomePage  www.tva.gov/orgs/iwr/iwrhome.htm

I am answering for one small (4 of us) group (Process & Prevention Services) that specializes in P2 and helping industry in 7
states.  There are several other groups in TVA that practice P2 and they may answer also (this is forwarded to them).

 1) Yes.  We try to incorporate P2 into the corporate culture at any level we can, including of course EMS.
2) NA
3) Two of the four in our group are CHMM

From:        Jancie Hatcher <p2ad@ix.netcom.com>
To:          "Vincent R. Perelli" <v_perelli@des.state.nh.us>
Date:        2/5/99 8:42am
Subject:     Re: An unofficial survey  - Environmental Management SystemAssistance

1)  We are just starting to think about how to provide this type of information.  We do have one engineer who has a good bit
of knowledge about this subject, and he has been working with a couple of clients in doing some gap analysis.  We are
obviously not one of the pilot states.
2) I think undoubtably this is the direction we will go in, particularly for larger clients.  We also have a contractual relationship
with Georgia Tech.  They have a group called the Center for International Standards and Quality (CISQ), and we refer a lot
of people over there for training and technical assistance specifically for ISO 14000.
3) We have two engineers who have been through a week's worth of training - I got a two-day introduction to the ISO 14000
standard specifically.

Jancie Hatcher
GA Pollution Prevention Asst. Div.

From:  Kevin Dick <dick@unr.edu>
To:    WMD1.WMDPOST(WMVRP)
Date:  2/8/99 1:52pm
Subject:    Your Survey


In 1997 we provided EMS/ISO 1400 training seminars and we distribute the  EPA EMS Manual for Small and Mid-Size
Enterprises.  We don't have any formal staff EMS training or certification.  

Kevin Dick
NSBDC-BEP
(775) 689-6677

From:  "Andrea Kreiner" <akreiner@state.de.us>
To:    DES.SMTP("p2tech@great-lakes.net")
Date:  2/17/99 9:39am
Subject:    EMS Training

Hi folks,
I am looking to get a one-day training on environmental management systems for  our regulatory folks.  They are including
EMS's in SEPS and additional  training on understanding them better would be helpful.
Does anyone know of folks who provide this type of training?
Thanks in advance,
Andrea

Andrea Kreiner
Business & Permitting Services
89 Kings Hwy., Dover, DE 19901
akreiner@dnrec.state.de.us     302-739-3822          302-739-6242 fax

From:  Warren J. Weaver <wjw5@psu.edu>
To:    DES.SMTP("akreiner@state.de.us")
Date:  2/18/99 9:43am
Subject:    RE: EMS Training-Reply

Andrea-
Beth had a good idea. One of the companies on that list is Excel Partnership. I took my ISO 14000 lead auditor training from
them in 1997. It was excellent. Another PENNTAP specialist took their course two weeks ago and had the same reaction. You
can contact them at
<www.excelpartnership.com> or (800) 374-3818.
wjw/

Andrea,
The American Society of Quality maintains a list of ANSI-RAB accredited course providers for ISO 14001.  These providers
would likely be able to talk about EMSs in general if this is your interest and can tailor a course to your audience if you have
a sufficient number to attend the class, for instance, take into account a regulator's perspective.

I recommend calling ASQ at 800-248-1946 and requesting a list of certified course providers.  You may then contact the 12
or so firms on the list for public classes being offered in your area or discuss having a class offered at your site.   As a note,
although there may only be 12 or so course providers on the list, they often affiliate with local consulting groups when offering
training classes.  For instance, North Carolina's EMS pilot facilities wanted an internal auditor training class.  I wrote to the list
and got a response from a NC firm that wasn't on the list, but was affiliated with an accredited course provider.  They have some
sort of system for filtering information to their network of consultants.  A final note, no one-day class is likely to be accredited. 
Usually, just the 3 and 5 day classes are officially approved by ANSI-RAB.

Beth Graves
EMS Project Coor.