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Re: [Fwd: alternative for phosporic acid cleaners?]

Steam or VERY hot water will also clean and remove much grease and some of
the burned on material with little waste, and still leave the oil and water
readily separable.  My choice would be to segregate cleaning wastes -- those
with detergent and soap (I am including NaOH and Phos acid) vs. those
resulting from steam or hot water cleaning.  The latter separate easily, the
former may take more work, particularly to de-saponify the oil from the
detergents and soaps.  BTW using straight HW or steam as a precleaning step
means that less detergent is needed when it is used, therefore less of a
problem and some less purchase cost.


Ralph E. Cooper, Ph.D.
J.D. expected May 1999
Case Western University School of Law

14139 Woodstream
San Antonio, TX 78231
210-479-5490 (4)

-----Original Message-----
From: Callahan, Mike <Mike.Callahan@jacobs.com>
To: 'Thomas Barron' <tsbarron@ibm.net>
Cc: 'P2Tech' <p2tech@great-lakes.net>
Date: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Fwd: alternative for phosporic acid cleaners?]

>Other than the issue of pH, whats wrong with NaOH and phosphoric acid? I
>suspect these compounds are used because trace levels left on the metal
>surface will not be hazardous to the consumer. You have to be careful when
>switching cleaners in a food processing plant because they have to be
>approved for use. I think the FDA and the Dept of Agriculture might be
>involved in this approval process.
>I suspect the caustic is being used to saponify the cooking oil and the
>acid is then used to remove the burned on carbon and scale. To reduce the
>use of these cleaners, the plant should review its cleaning procedure. Can
>the cooker be drained while hot so as to remove more of the oil ? Can the
>walls be squeegeed (once cool) to remove oil ?
>How about a high pressure clean-in-place system? Many of these systems
>provide enough force to remove burned on residue. Use clean water and they
>should be able to easily separate the oil from the water prior to
>They might even be able to filter the oil and reuse it.
>How about ways to reduce the burning of the oil? Would better temperature
>control prevent overheating? This would reduce the need to clean. Or maybe
>they need a way to clean the oil while in use. If chips fall to the bottom
>of the kettle, can they be removed quickly? I suspect not and this is why
>the oil must be replaced frequently and the kettle cleaned.
>Not having inspected this type of operation, I can only guess at possible
>solutions. I find it amusing that people are now looking at food processing
>and P2. We had a few people laugh with (at?) us many years ago when we
>included cafeteria waste as part of a Waste Min assessment. They laughed
>until we pointed out that their haz waste hauler was gladly managing their
>cafeteria sumps because the high solids content drove the disposal price to
>more than $2 per gallon. Segregated, haz waste oils could be disposed of at
>$0.80 per gallon and cafeteria oil and grease at $0.30 per gallon.  While
>they did implement segregation, I don't think our suggestion to implement a
>low-fat meal program was adopted.
>Just some thoughts,
>> ----------
>> From: Thomas Barron[SMTP:tsbarron@ibm.net]
>> Reply To: Thomas Barron
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 1999 11:10 AM
>> To: 'p2tech@great-lakes.net'
>> Subject: [Fwd: alternative for phosporic acid cleaners?]
>> <<Message: alternative for phosporic acid clean...>>
>> P2Techs -
>> Does anyone have suggestions for Tracey's project involving cleaning of
>> cooking vessels at a food processing plant in California?
>> Regards,
>> Tom Barron, PE
>> P2 Consultant
>> (925) 283-8121