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Re: Please Post on P2 Tech

P2 has never been about finding the RIGHT ANSWERS.  It has been more about
making change.  Most people change slowly.  Most people need a PLAN to
change.  This is why we have groups like AA and Weight Watchers.  They
change no one over night.  On the State of New Mexico web page and on the
SW P2 Center web page, there are examples of what New Mexico organizations
have been able to do as a result of planning and continuous environmental
improvement rather than the QUICK FIXES the original message offered
training in.  I have been involved in the preparation of more than 70
citizen suit settlement agreements and SEPs where a PLAN was required along
with 3 to 5 years evidence of implementation.  I can demonstrate
conclusively that all of these facilities finally GOT IT in the third year
or later.  Experts or outside technical assistance parties (or even
consultants, vendors, or college professors) can CHANGE an organization
overnight.  I have just written an article on change in Environmental
Quality Mangement (it on my web site under Force Field Diagrams).  You
should contact Pat Gallagher for data and results or the organizations that
have let her publicize their participation in Green Zia.  For those of you
that attended the NPPR spring meeting in Washington, D.C. a couple of years
ago remember the talk that Texas Nameplate provided.  Dale cited RESULTS
not success stories.  His employees were responsible for the progam, not
experts or electronic databases loaded with right answers.  It was a great
talk.  On my web site is an example of what Naugatuck Glass was able to do
with a plan.  The followup results were published in the last issue of
Environmental Quality Management (John Wiley & Sons).  I will send you a
copy of that article electronically.  You have to be open to new methods.
The traditional P2 approach only took us so far.  NIST MEPs are beginning
to use quality methods to help organizations change and reduce waste. I
think we need to pay attention to this work and resist the "Heck with the
PLANNING" call that many want to make.  I hope that Region IX has signed up
for one of the training sessions on the new EPA P2 Manual.  I hope you will
enjoy Chapter 7 on using the Baldrige model (Green Zia) for implementing a

Bob Pojasek

At 10:02 AM 2/6/01 -0800, you wrote:
>Can you point us to where you have data showing the superior waste
>reduction results from companies using the PLANNING, Baldridge and Green
>Zia approaches you mention?
>Leif Magnuson
>Pollution Prevention Coordinator
>US EPA Region IX, WST-7
>75 Hawthorne St.
>San Francisco, CA  94105
>Tel (415) 744-2153
>Fax (415) 744-1680
>                    Robert Pojasek

>                    <rpojasek@sprynet.        To:
>                    com>                      cc:
>                    Sent by:                  Subject:     Re: Please Post
on P2 Tech              
>                    owner-p2tech@great
>                    -lakes.net
>                    02/05/2001 04:45
>                    PM
>                    Please respond to
>                    Robert Pojasek
>I hope that the folks at the Southwest P2 Center will comment on the new
>EPA P2 Guide that is challenging the theory that it is best to impose case
>studies (often written by public relations experts with little quantitative
>results to show) on companies.  There is a feeling that "employees never
>resist their own ideas" and that by using widely available problem solving
>and decision-making tools they could get better at P2 than having outside
>"experts" coming in.  They could take advantage of continuous improvement
>and "lessons learned" to grow their P2 program internally and be able to
>handle their own problems better each year.  This is a better way to
>integrate P2 into core business practice - something no expert can do with
>a single visit or even with periodic visits.
>There is a national award given by the President each year to the companies
>that use quality to become more competitive.  It stresses the need for
>PLANNING.  The companies participating in the Baldrige program beat the S&P
>500 Index financially by nearly 5 times.  Texas Nameplate Company has won
>this award.  That in and of itself may answer Ms. Hsieh's question "Why the
>heck would anyone want to do a pollution prevention plan?"  The Southwest

>Pollution Prevention Center has information on the Green Zia program in its
>web site.  Ms. Hsieh may wish to review it since it uses the Baldrige model
>for continuous environmental improvement.  Planning is a major component of
>this effort.  I would hope that you include Green Zia methods in your
>training (since their scoring gives ZERO points for success stories - show
>the RESULTS).  I hope you will review the new DRAFT EPA manual.  I hope you
>will read the Environmental Justice Manual (recently translated by the
>Green Zia folks into Spanish) to see how problem solving and
>decision-making tools can be used by very small (1-3 person)
>Texas can learn a lot about P2 from its neighbor to the west.  I hope that
>it takes the opportunity to do so.
>Bob Pojasek
>At 04:36 PM 2/5/01 -0600, you wrote:
>>Why in the heck would anyone want to do a pollution prevention plan?
>>Maybe you have a lot of extra time at your shop, but more likely you are
>looking for ways to save money, reduce waste, and get fewer visits from
>your friendly neighborhood government inspector.
>>On March 5&6 the Southwest Pollution Prevention Center will be hosting a
>workshop to show how you can help industrial facilities:
>>Identify P2 options  using web technology, vendor information and site
>>Use Case studies to find how others succeeded
>>Identify the most profitable P2 options
>>Workshop participants will leave with a plan to mobilize their employees,
>sell their management, and change their role as an environmental manager.
>>If you would like to know more please visit:
>>or contact Hope Casdtilo at 512/239-3100
>>Tomas Vinson
>>Engineering Specialist
>>TNRCC - Pollution Prevention
>>PO Box 13087
>>Austin, Tx 78711-3087
>Dr. Robert B. Pojasek
>Adjunct Faculty Lecturer
>Harvard School of Public Health
>P.O. Box 1333
>E. Arlington, MA 02474-0071
>(781) 641-2422
>(617) 788-0288  fax