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Re: EMS and P2

As you say, the ISO14000 standards do not audit for compliance to national
regulations but compliance to ISO14000 agenda.
But an ISO14000  EMS is a big step in the direction of providing business
management a structure for environmental performance feedback.
It's unfortunate the standards industry and consultants are making this
process more expensive and less centralized then it should be.
Many ISO9000 registered firms feel they are being double dipped with
ISO14000 registration that overlap some of the already registered ISO9000
Never the less ISO14000 is spreading in the automobile industry.
Ford Motor is having all its plants register to ISO14000 and all its Tier 1
suppliers are indirectly being told that ISO14000 is preferred to supply
Does anyone know what P2 mandates Ford requires of its Tier 1 suppliers?

Donald Sutherland

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Pojasek <rpojasek@sprynet.com>
To: p2tech@great-lakes.net <p2tech@great-lakes.net>
Date: Saturday, April 21, 2001 8:48 PM
Subject: Fwd: EMS and P2

>The International Organization for Standardization boldly points out that
>ISO 14001 and its companion standard, ISO 14004, are copyrighted documents
>and you must purchase them to read them.  I like to make money just as ISO
>does so I purchased them.  So having read the ISO documents (and not some
>biased article telling you what you could read if you had your very own
>purchased copy), I have come to realize that you only have to have an
>INTENT to implement "THE PREVENTION OF POLLUTION" (as you know defined to
>include end-of-pipe treatment).  As an aside, I purchased four ISO
>standards for $177 - over $3.70 per page including blank pages that they do
>charge you for.
>Cam Metcalf has written a great chapter on how to implement a P2 program
>using an EMS.  It will appear as Chapter 6 in the new EPA P2 manual that
>should be released in July of this year.  You should contact him to see if
>there are any P2 results with the companies he has worked with in Kentucky.
> There are others that know how to make ISO work well with regard to P2.
>Maybe they will be able to post P2 results for us to see.  However, one
>wonders how many "minimalist" implementations there will be with companies
>being forced into ISO 14001 by their customers.  Remember that you do not
>have to actually do P2 to get certified in ISO 14001.  A mention in your
>policy statement will probably surfice for many certifiers.  Remember that
>ISO 14001 is a conformance standard, not a performance standard.
><http://www.pojasek-associates.com/Reprints/IESU_Forum.doc>  This is a
>distinction that you should become aware of.
>Green Zia (New Mexico Environment Department) offers organizations a
>"prevention-based" EMS alternative to ISO 14001. You can get more
>information on PERFORMANCE STANDARDS like Green Zia in an article I wrote
><http://www.pojasek-associates.com/Reprints/EQMPerformance.htm>  You can
>check out the New Mexico Environment Web Site to get more information on
>the Green Zia Program <http://www.nmenv.state.nm.us/>  See the information
>posted on the Green Zia Recognition winners to see if they list P2 results.
> By the way, you do not have to PAY anyone to read the Green Zia Guide.
>Don't let ISO find out about that!  Furthermore, Green Zia has lived by its
>own commitment of continuous improvement by changing the program every
>year.  ISO 14001 hasn't chaged much, if at all, since it went out to ballot
>in 1995.
>Maybe you will reframe your question again next year, only include Green
>Zia instead of ISO 14001.
>Bob Pojasek
>>Sender: owner-p2tech@great-lakes.net
>>Reply-To: "Kelly D. Moran" <kmoran@tdcenvironmental.com>
>>List-Name: p2tech
>>X-Loop: p2tech
>>Aha--a chance for a discussion on whether EMSs actually cause P2 or
>>environmental improvement!  Does anyone have any data that shows that
>>ISO 14000 certification and/or implementation of an EMS can be linked to
>>implementation of P2 or other environmental improvement?  This is a
>>topic of ongoing debate here in CA.
>>Kelly Moran
>>TDC Environmental
>Dr. Robert B. Pojasek
>Pojasek & Associates
>PO Box 1333
>E. Arlington, MA 02474-0071
>(v) 781-641-2422
>(f)  617-788-0288