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RE: P2 and National Security

There are many websites talking about The Anarchist's Cookbook.  The specific checklist for raids is all over as well, check out these websites:



I got these websites from typing ""lab raid" exodus" in Google.  I think if you type in Anarchists Cookbook you get more.  I originally got the reference to the Lab Raid Checklist from Dave Waddell of King County's Local Hazardous Waste Management, and the lead for the Rehab the Lab project in King County, WA.  Yeah this stuff is out there.  Dave Waddell runs the Rehab the Lab Program and I think just hearing his horror stories (and seeing some myself) about the types, quantities, condition, and storage practices of chemicals in school labs (Elementary thru High School) is chilling.  Currently Washington State and EPA (Washington Operations) are looking at exporting the Rehab the Lab Program statewide.  If you have anymore questions, feel free to give me a call or reply back.

Kevin Shupe

Technical Assistance Provider

WA State Dept. of Ecology, HWTR

3190 160th Ave SE

Bellevue, WA  98008




-----Original Message-----
From: Illig, Richard [mailto:rillig@state.pa.us]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 5:11 AM
To: Shupe, Kevin
Cc: 'P2TECH'; Foreman, William; Young, James
Subject: RE: P2 and National Security




In your response to Burt you mentioned the following..."The Anarchists Cookbook provides a checklist for raids on high school labs;"


Is this a figurative expression (I'm hoping), or have you actually seen some publication or website where that specific topic is discussed?  Although many of us may have heard this sort of thing, I never looked for documentation to prove the point.


Schools are hesitant to acknowledge that chemical storerooms could be an issue for students let alone a tool for radical groups.  Any publication or website that discusses the potential, or provide an actual chemical "shopping list", could actually serve as a tool in educating school personnel that a very real danger does exist and, to some extent, exactly what chemicals to avoid.  In other words, perhaps the "terrorists-types" have performed some useful work which we can use to our advantage. 


I hesitate to use or advertise negative examples to make a case for improvement, but in this instance I think I'd re-consider.  If terrorist websites or publications can serve to pave the way for more schools to get involved in the program, maybe it would be good to arm ourselves with a few of the terrorist's "tools" for a change.  Studying their websites may provide much of what we need to know.


Comments from others would be appreciated.  Thanks, Ric 







-----Original Message-----
From: Shupe, Kevin [mailto:KSHU461@ECY.WA.GOV]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:59 PM
To: Burton Hamner; p2tech; ECDM; AP CP List
Subject: RE: P2 and National Security

Hey Burt, I agree that reducing toxics and other hazardous materials is probably one of the biggest advantages to reconcile P2 with security issues.  Along with reducing the materials is knowing what you have.  Maintaining an inventory of your hazardous materials is another way of being proactive in maintaining good security.  The Anarchists Cookbook provides a checklist for raids on high school labs; one of the reasons this is suggested, is that school labs don't know what they have.  An active inventory can provide some advance that something may be amiss.


-----Original Message-----
From: Burton Hamner [mailto:bhamner@cleanerproduction.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 5:06 PM
To: p2tech; ECDM; AP CP List
Subject: P2 and National Security


Hello all.  I am doing some thinking about Pollution Prevention and national security at request of a colleague and also for a workshop in March.  Is there an obvious connection?  Or some more subtle ones?  Here are some of my thoughts:


- Toxics reduction:  P2 can mean fewer toxic chemicals around for people to make trouble with.


- Minimum requirements for resources:  P2 can reduce the amount of water and energy that people need to get by, so they are less vulnerable perhaps in event of disruption of supply.  Reducing use also makes distributed generation of power and clean water more feasible so systems have fewer vulnerable points.


- Carbohydrate chemistry and chemical substitutions and reduction can reduce the need for imported oil (tho this is hardly likely to make any difference).


Does anyone have other ideas to share?  It may be that this is all just reaching a little too far for relevance to national security.  But that's what listservs are for - reaching way far!



Burt Hamner