RE: Five why's = root cause analysis

[Georjean Adams <gla@ehsstrategies.com>]

Title: RE: Five why's = root cause analysis

Agree the issue is to get to the ROOT cause.  Every time you appear to hit a wall, it should open up a new series of 5 why's and include the partner in the supply chain (whether parts supplier or customer) to try to answer the why's.

I also agree there's nothing magic about "5" - but that's the lingo, so better to stick with it than make them feel like this is a whole new system to get used to.

I don't know what your situation is on corrosion - inventory and indoor or alternate storage sound like useful options to look at.  There also may be different ways of providing corrosion resistance that the supplier could use - whether what the parts are made out of or another treatment that doesn't have to be washed off.  The point is to encourage brainstorming and research into a variety of solutions and parties who can provide them.

BTW - I saw a corrosion 5 whys example in the EPA Toolkit (although water use was the issue) which cited  the source as     Robert B. Pojasek, "Asking 'Why' Five Times," Environmental Quality Management (Autumn 2000): 83.  Maybe worth chasing down the article.

Georjean

At 2:20 PM -0800 3/2/09, Callahan, Mike wrote:

> Hi
> Michelle,
>  
> Boy, talk
> about a defeatist end statement.  Why ask why if you're going
> to end the line of questioning with a statement that equates to
> "because that's the way we've always done it and we're not going
> to change."  I would prefer to see:
>  
> ü      Why
> is this type of corrosion protection absolutely necessary? Because
> the parts are stored outdoors, exposed to weather.
>  
> So is the
> root cause corrosion protection or improper storage leading to
> corrosion?  Ferrous iron parts will rust if exposed to moisture
> and air.  Why do they have to be stored outdoors?  Moving
> the parts inside into a controlled environment might avoid the
> potential for corrosion.  Another benefit of indoor storage is
> that the parts will not be chilled down overnight, this sometimes
> leading to rejects in the morning (the cold metal may upset
> temperature control on the hot process baths).
>  
> One
> problem I have with the "5 why's" concept is that it is too
> limiting to the problem at hand.  I believe it's better to ask
> 10 why's or 100 why's until you have exhausted all potential
> options.  Why use solvent, why use oil, why use this particular
> oil product, why allow the parts to rust, why make the parts out of
> steel, why not buy the parts already painted or plated, etc., etc. 
> Just my 2 cents.
>  
> Mike Callahan,
> PE
> Jacobs Engineering
> 1111 S. Arroyo Parkway
> Pasadena CA, 91105
> (626) 568-7005 office
> (213) 359-9805 cell
>  
> -----Original
> Message-----
> From: owner-p2tech@great-lakes.net
> [mailto:owner-p2tech@great-lakes.net] On Behalf Of michelle
> gaither
> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 1:05 PM
> To: p2tech
> Subject: Five why's = root cause analysis
>  
> I am looking for a good
> example of drilling down with 5 why's - relating to a chemical
> issue.
>  
> here is an example, but i
> don't like this example because we don't have a solution.  (a few
> alternatives/potential solutions to this one would be great - or a
> completely different example.
>  
> Thanks in advance for any
> suggestions.
> --------------------------------------------
>  
> Asking "why" five
> times is a simple way to identify the root cause of a waste, and that
> makes it easier to identify ways to reduce or eliminate the waste.
> Here is an example:
>  
> ü  Why is the solvent a
> waste? Because the solvent is contaminated with
> oil.
>  
> ü  Why is it contaminated with
> oil? Because the solvent was used to clean oil off the
> parts.
>  
> ü  Why are the parts oily?
> Because the manufacturer puts a coating of oil on them before shipping
> them to this facility.
>  
> ü  Why does the manufacturer
> put a coating on them? To prevent the parts from corroding after
> manufacture.
>  
> ü  Why is this type of
> corrosion protection absolutely necessary? There is no other way
> to protect the parts from corrosion.
>  
> In this example, the root
> cause of the solvent waste is corrosion
> protection. 
>  
> Source: Arizona
> Department of Environmental Quality, Pollution Prevention Analysis
> and Plan Guidance Manual, March 2006, www.azdeq.gov/environ/waste/p2/download/first.pdf.
> Michelle
> Gaither | environmental engineer
> 1402 Third Ave, Suite 1420
> | Seattle, WA 98101
> T 206.352.2050 | F
> 206.352.2049| www.pprc.org
> Pacific
> Northwest Pollution Prevention Resource Center
> practical solutions for economic and
> environmental vitality
>  
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