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SG-W:/ Re: [energyresources] Sustainability plans

        I  know that Lawrence Crowell is an extremely intelligent person but
his viewpoint here is such a pervasive one that it must be answered.
          Imagine a situation where we have to live on wind, biomass, and
solar energy. Even this energy will ultimately fail for lack of raw
materials. Select a time where we have 20% of the energy available now.
There will be no energy for commuting, and little energy to haul food and
other materials around. This means that each region must grow or manufacture
as many of the commodities it needs as possible. Therefore you must be able
to walk to factory, farm, and school. In order to maintain any comfort at
all, we still must manufacture liquid fuels, fertilizer, machinery, and
building materials. There will be very little energy left for heating
         Apartment houses are much easier to heat than individual houses
because as buildings get larger and taller the ratio of space to surface
area increases. This geometric gain will be crucial. Furthermore, with
larger buildings there is more space for gardens, it is easier to walk to
factory or farms, and factories can be put into the apartments themselves
thus ensuring the use of waste heat for building heating. We probaly will
have to learn how to build apartments from straw bales. Each community must
be designed not only to provide its own food but also to manufacture a
product that is desperately needed not only within the community but also in
neighboring communities. It will also be necessary to have strong
governments within communities which will ensure that there are no horror
stories, that everyone works, and that the sick are taken care of. Elderly
people will have to baby sit so that younger women can work in the fields or
        My big problem with living with others would center around music. I
like classical music and consider music written in the last 40 years to be
extreme trash. I can't stand the music of my children and in turn, they
can't stand the music of their children. The answer is headphones and
         If you are hungry and cold you will be glad to live in an
apartment. Houses as they are built now will be impossible to heat. They
will have to be torn down and their materials made into apartments or
enlarged to become apartments.
          Europe uses about half the energy per capita that we are. One of
the reasons for this is the large number of old apartments in Europe. They
also make mass transit much more practical..  .

                                             Kermit Schlansker
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence B. Crowell <lcrowell@swcp.com>
To: energyresources@yahoogroups.com <energyresources@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: solar conc. <solar-concentrator@cichlid.com>; Sustainable Community
<sustainablecommunity@egroups.com>; Gasification <gasification@crest.org>;
Malletts Creek Group <malletts@umich.edu>; smartgrowth
<smartgrowth-washtenaw@great-lakes.net>; ROE
Date: Monday, July 02, 2001 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: [energyresources] Sustainability plans

>At 11:41 AM 7/2/01 -0400, Kermit Schlansker wrote:
>In a certain sense I agree with you.  There is one point that I have some
>trouble with ...
>>          The keys to Sustainability are apartment houses,
>When I was in college I lived in a large appartment house.  The building
>caught fire.  I was awakened very early in the morning (around 2am) with
>thick smoke, roomates in a panic and I escaped with only my Fruit of the
>Loom underware.  I lost everything, and my underware became my only worldly
>possession.  The building utterly burned to the ground.  I hate apartments!
> You are packed in with lots of people who can make mistakes, such as with
>Later a friend of mine lived in an apartement where the adjoining unit had
>a meth-lab.  The damned thing exploded.  His two children required a total
>of over 50 stitches due to glass and wood fragments that acted as shrapnel.
>I live in my house and am damned glad of it.
>> planned communities
>and those have a serious history of failure.
>As for alternative energy, those things have to be integrated into what
>currently exists.  Rather than redesigning everything, I think it is better
>to think about redesigning things that people can buy off the shelf.
>Lawrence B. Crowell
>For one moment your mind was open to an infinite number of possibilities.
>The exploration that awaits you is ... charting the unknown possibilities
>of existence.
> Q on Star Trek
>Your message didn't show up on the list? Complaints or compliments?
>Drop me (Tom Robertson) a note at t1r@bellatlantic.net
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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